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  1. #61
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Imagine that, some working class people like literature.

    That's why all of this class stuff gets on my nerves, it really does.
    This is really backwards though. This is my family. With their musicals and their Christianity and their word puzzles and novels that are thousands of pages long.

    I'm like DAMNIT. SPEND YOUR TIME GETTING A REAL JOB INSTEAD!


    /end personal rant.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    This is really backwards though. This is my family. With their musicals and their Christianity and their word puzzles and novels that are thousands of pages long.

    I'm like DAMNIT. SPEND YOUR TIME GETTING A REAL JOB INSTEAD!


    /end personal rant.
    I really think it's absurd to associate intelligence or intellectualism with class.

    "Oh look! Poor people like to read Camus!"

    It's as though those of the upper classes were witnessing a dog dance. It makes me want to punch them.

  3. #63
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I really think it's absurd to associate intelligence or intellectualism with class.

    "Oh look! Poor people like to read Camus!"

    It's as though those of the upper classes were witnessing a dog dance. It makes me want to punch them.
    Yea, that's true. Class is more about a certain combination of values, I suppose.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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    by sns.

  4. #64
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    You Scored as Upper middle Class
    Your determination have soared you this high, yet not high enough to enjoy the luxuries of the upper class. Your most valued posession is your country club membership which is kept framed in the office.



    Upper middle Class
    58%
    Middle Class
    54%
    alternative
    46%
    Luxurious Upper Class
    42%
    Lower Class
    17%
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yea, that's true. Class is more about a combination values, I suppose.
    The concept of high culture emerged because those with wealth had the leisure time to pursue such things. However, if you're born with a natural bent toward loving Tolstoy, The Bronte sisters, and European cinema, who gives a flying fuck what your Daddy did or where you went to school?

    There are middle class people with NO TASTE. NONE AT ALL. Being exposed to the best schools is really no guarentee that you'll be able to appreciate fine art, philosophy, or literature. You may be able to discuss them in a superficial, pseudo-intellectual manner because you were exposed to it, but if you lack the innate interest or talent, you're not really all that developed in your literary or artistic pursuits.

    Sure, there may be more working class people who do not appreciate literature, but is that because they weren't given the opportunity? Or perhaps they simply didn't have the interest, and prefer to do highly-skilled labor because they honestly enjoy hands-on work rather than study.

    It's one of the reasons why I'm so rabid about my political beliefs. Intelligent people are everywhere, as are intellectuals. Money and class are guarentees of nothing at all. Everyone deserves a chance.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    This test didn't ask about any of that at all, which is what made it strange. Most of the questions ask about your views on things. (Which is why "alternative" is a result for some people. Though the people who ended up with that answer may have a well defined lifestyle monetarily, they don't mentally choose to participate in societies class statuses, and therefore don't belong to a class.)
    yup, the test focuses on the taker's views more than relative info.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Fussell claims that middle class mostly identify status by which university one went to. Also middle class are generally fraught with class insecurity, like YWIR
    I was agreeing with FDG, I think its more relative to the job you have than the university you went to. I believe luxury/Upper middle class is more likely to associate universities with status. Ie *sipping tea* " ohh yes, my daughter has her selection of Brown, Harvard, or Yale. yadda yadda yadaa"<-- more likely to afford it.

    ps, don't make assumptions, I just wanted an accurate reading.

  7. #67
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    The concept of high culture emerged because those with wealth had the leisure time to pursue such things. However, if you're born with a natural bent toward loving Tolstoy, The Bronte sisters, and European cinema, who gives a flying fuck what your Daddy did or where you went to school?
    The upper classes also loved reading about themselves, and the lower classes loved reading about the upper classes. Furthermore, both would pay to do so. Meanwhile, the middle class values were that such things were decadent and detracted from necessary work. Thus, the idea of "bourgeois culture" being inferior.

    One of the nice things about the 20th Century is that the music of the lower classes began to spread over a wider area than folk music once did, and thus more people were able to appreciate its creativity, and synthesized it into completely new areas of musical comprehension. IMO, the rise of popular music did more to advance musical creativity than the previous 400 years of sanctioned classical music.

    There are middle class people with NO TASTE. NONE AT ALL. Being exposed to the best schools is really no guarentee that you'll be able to appreciate fine art, philosophy, or literature. You may be able to discuss them in a superficial, pseudo-intellectual manner because you were exposed to it, but if you lack the innate interest or talent, you're not really all that developed in your literary or artistic pursuits.
    I agree. At the same time, there are certain things that are part of one's cultural capital. This is especially important in the middle class, where educational level is so important. For example, practically everyone's used the phrase "pound of flesh," but it's only people of a certain education level (usually post-graduate), or who are particularly interested in Shakespeare, that understand how and why it is offensive to certain people. Those bits that one will pick up as a result of education, even if one doesn't have a whole lot of taste, do register as important shibboleths.

    Sure, there may be more working class people who do not appreciate literature, but is that because they weren't given the opportunity? Or perhaps they simply didn't have the interest, and prefer to do highly-skilled labor because they honestly enjoy hands-on work rather than study.
    I'd also say that it's because there are fewer people around to talk about literature with. One of the most important things about having cultural capital like that is that through sharing one's thoughts on what that person's read, that person can understand others better, and others understand the person better. There's this idea that reading is a particularly introverted activity, but as you're aware, that's not necessarily the case. Millions of people take great pleasure in their book clubs, even if sometimes those books do not constitute "high literature."

    I think even in the case of someone who prefers hands-on labor, a copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance could radically shift their perspective on what books can do.

  8. #68
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    I was agreeing with FDG, I think its more relative to the job you have than the university you went to. I believe luxury/Upper middle class is more likely to associate universities with status. Ie *sipping tea* " ohh yes, my daughter has her selection of Brown, Harvard, or Yale. yadda yadda yadaa"<-- more likely to afford it.

    ps, don't make assumptions, I just wanted an accurate reading.
    Well, it depends on what you mean by "middle class". I think the definition Edgar's going by defines middle class as the professional class, such as doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, etc. along with entrepreneurs. Those are the ones who make sure to mention if they went to an elite school, or if their children are accepted into one of these schools.

    The upper class knows that they'll go to those schools through legacy contacts, anyway, so they hardly give it a second thought.

    It's a decidedly middle class belief that you gain status through your employment, and that you risk losing it if you lose your job. That's the class insecurity he talks about.

    The upper class belief is that your status is secured through your membership in a particular family. It's that gap in perspective which is why the nouveau riche are never accepted by old money, at least not for a few generations, by which time the status-through-family-identity has taken root.

  9. #69
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Well, it depends on what you mean by "middle class". I think the definition Edgar's going by defines middle class as the professional class, such as doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, etc. along with entrepreneurs. Those are the ones who make sure to mention if they went to an elite school, or if their children are accepted into one of these schools..
    I really think I need to do more research regarding this subject, because I honestly have not paid a sufficent amount of attention to the details of class. However, I still don't think they would apply as middle class. That would be more like upper middle class.
    Wiki:
    As the American middle class is estimated at approximately 45% of the population
    I don't think 45% of american workers are lawyers, doctors, and architects.

    The upper class knows that they'll go to those schools through legacy contacts, anyway, so they hardly give it a second thought.
    Again, luxury class is relative to what you just said.
    Wiki: Upper-middle class
    Typical professions for upper middle class include professors, accountants, architects, attorneys, urban planners, engineers, economists, physicians, political scientists, pharmacists, premier management consultants and civilian contractors.
    It's a decidedly middle class belief that you gain status through your employment, and that you risk losing it if you lose your job. That's the class insecurity he talks about.
    Right, middle class is a lot more likely to feel insecurities at maintaining their current life style/status.

    The upper class belief is that your status is secured through your membership in a particular family. It's that gap in perspective which is why the nouveau riche are never accepted by old money, at least not for a few generations, by which time the status-through-family-identity has taken root
    Upper class= Luxury class. You have the LUXURY of security. I agree with you here. I also think this is where the "legacy" contacts come in. Upper middle class, although can likely afford Ivy league education, they're less likely to be as influential as upper/luxury class. IVY League education might be the norm, however, WHICH Ivy league education their children get is still a relatively "brag" worthy subject.

  10. #70
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    You Scored as Middle Class
    You're content in your position and would prefer a house or a family than a seven figure pay cheque. But you have your moments of weakness when you buy a lottery ticket in the hope of knowing how the rich and famous live.

    Middle Class
    71%
    Upper middle Class
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    alternative
    46%
    Lower Class
    29%
    Luxurious Upper Class
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

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