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  1. #81
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Do you take decisions based on societal norms?
    Who, me?

  2. #82
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    This is the Aleksei's theory, not the mine. (see the previous posts)
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    This is the Aleksei's theory, not the mine. (see the previous posts)
    I didn't ask whose theory it was. I wanted to know if you were addressing me, and if you were - what do you mean by 'societal norms'?

  4. #84
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Just ask to Fe users.
    What they think is irrelevant, because in order to be an Fe user one must conform to what was defined as Fe, given that Fe is a psychometric symbol and not an actual neurological phenomenon. Jung did not define Fe as acting assertively in accordance to feelings, because Jung did not define the Feeling function as even having anything to do with feelings themselves. Feeling functions are ethical functions.
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  5. #85
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Alright, I'm going to be really blunt here.

    Quite frankly, I don't think any of these theorists in the past accurately discussed what these functions were. And I think it is foolish to call something 'feeling' and 'thinking' and then complain that other people misinterpret it. In addition, I think it is quite interesting that so many people want to be a 'thinker' in a society where a 'thoughtful,' 'rational' person is considered optimal. Of course you're going to have a bunch of people saying, "Ewwww, no, I'm not a feeler...grossssssssssssss!"

  6. #86
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I didn't ask whose theory it was. I wanted to know if you were addressing me, and if you were - what do you mean by 'societal norms'?
    Yes, I was addressing to you, because Aleksei said Fe users take decisions based on "societal norms". So, being apparently an Fe-dom, I asked to you if you took decisions like this. "Societal norms" don't mean many things to me, and apparently not many things to you anymore.
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  7. #87
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Yes, I was addressing to you, because Aleksei said Fe users take decisions based on "societal norms". So, being apparently an Fe-dom, I asked to you if you took decisions like this. "Societal norms" don't mean many things to me, and apparently not many things to you anymore.
    Well, before I answer a question, I like to understand it. Otherwise, foolish/senseless misunderstandings result.

    Therefore, please tell me what some examples of societal norms are, I would be happy to tell you whether or not I conform to them.

  8. #88
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Quite frankly, I don't think any of these theorists in the past accurately discussed what these functions were.
    The problem with this statement is the proposition that "this functions are." The functions are nothing but descriptions of how the human mind works, and really don't exist except as abstract symbols. They can't be described accurately or inaccurately, because they are arbitrary.

    And I think it is foolish to call something 'feeling' and 'thinking' and then complain that other people misinterpret it.
    And thus I wouldn't really pick a fight with an MBTI initiate over it -- just clarify. I would expect someone who has thousands of posts on the subject, who has made huge threads devoted to typing people, to know this, however.

    In addition, I think it is quite interesting that so many people want to be a 'thinker' in a society where a 'thoughtful,' 'rational' person is considered optimal. Of course you're going to have a bunch of people saying, "Ewwww, no, I'm not a feeler...grossssssssssssss!"
    I agree, but what does that have to do with anything?
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  9. #89
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Okay getting back to the point: What are societal norms?

  10. #90
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Yes, I was addressing to you, because Aleksei said Fe users take decisions based on "societal norms". So, being apparently an Fe-dom, I asked to you if you took decisions like this. "Societal norms" don't mean many things to me, and apparently not many things to you anymore.
    Basically, the difference between Fe and Fi is where you derive your moral compass from -- your sense of right and wrong. Fe users are Fe because their sense of ethics is outwardly derived; based on what people they feel emotionally close to feel is right. Fi users on the other hand draw their sense of ethics from within themselves -- what in their gut they feel is right or wrong. Your description has nothing to do with what Jung intended the F function to mean, and frankly it's insulting to F types. Feeling =/= emotional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Okay getting back to the point: What are societal norms?
    Values that society holds to be true. I thought that was pretty simple...

    I misworded a little though. In this case "society" is shorthand for what one feels is their community. Fe users, as mentioned above, think in terms of "our values" rather than "my values."
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