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  1. #101
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I'd go a little step further. Fe users think in terms of "the values"---confident of its belief in its own supposed objective judgement.
    I'm wondering if it's not a result of a bad balance between Ti and Fe. Thinking is about a seeking for objectivity, and an Fe-dom can use his Ti in a wrong way, and to claim he's objuective without realize that he's absolutely not. While with a good Fe-Ti balance, he can realize that his opinion is subjective, despite it still defendable. And accept to rationally discuss it, even if he still defend his opinion with convictions.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  2. #102
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    No. And this is a current mistake. It like if you said that Se is for external sensations, and Si is for body caring. This is an over simplification, and actually abstract categories wich dos'nt fit with reality.
    The difference between paying attention to present sensory experience and mapping out sensory experience to create a standard (I assume you're talking Se/Si here) doesn't exist? What are you smoking?

    Jung did not include the J/P dichotomy in his system, at the contrary of MBTI. In the MBTI system, that dichotomy tell if you prefer Perception or Judgement in the external world. Fe-dom; ESFJ and ENFJ, prefer judgement in the external world, and their judgement are based on feelings. So this is external, and feeling: Fe. They are extrovert, so, that function is their dominant function. Fi-dom, them, ISFP and INFP, prefer to use Perception in the external world, and their perception function is Se or Ne. But being introvert, theses extrovert functionx are auxillary and their dominant function is Fi. So, that mean that Fi-dom don't want to take decisions too much quickly and still aloof, prefer to take informations before making decisions. But they take theses information in the external world and so take care of opinions of others. And ultimately, Fi users are concernes with harmony, caring, consensus, etc, just like Fe users.

    "guts" about what is right and wrong are F things, not necessarly Fe or Fi.



    As I explained, Jung functions alone were inferiors to MBTI, which improve and rationalize the initial theory.
    If I understand your Engrish correctly (it is difficult, so bear with me), you're saying Isabel Myers is "more correct" about Jung's system that Jung is? That's stupid. Correct or incorrect do not apply to typology as an objective metric, because typology is arbitrary, much like the pronouncement that one plus one equals two. All you're saying is that Isabel Meyers posited the word "Feeling" is to be taken literally -- which does nothing to prove me wrong (assuming you're right) because I am not using Isabel Myers' system. I am using Jung's function as Jung intended, rather than another version of them bearing the same name. You may be right, but that doesn't make me wrong.

    This is too much simple to be true.
    Simplicity is necessary to make the system fit well -- and indeed Jung devised the functions in a simple manner (though he vastly overexplained them). Otherwise you get some aspects that fit and others that don't.

    The "our values"/"my values" is pretty cliché, considering than the Fe users can't be an individual person with a personal opinion.
    Naturally Fe users can have personal opinions. However, what defines Fe is a preference for following group consensus over what they themselves might believe of a given subject. I've heard ESTPs mention, for example, that they'd rather bowl the earth looking for earthworms than explore their own feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I'm wondering if it's not a result of a bad balance between Ti and Fe. Thinking is about a seeking for objectivity, and an Fe-dom can use his Ti in a wrong way, and to claim he's objuective without realize that he's absolutely not. While with a good Fe-Ti balance, he can realize that his opinion is subjective, despite it still defendable. And accept to rationally discuss it, even if he still defend his opinion with convictions.
    Ti (again, as Jung defined it) is not objective at all. It is logical, but it is based on its own deductive framework, rather than anything external. You for example are channeling a Ti perspective right now in insisting your function definition is right. I'm using functions as they were originally designed.
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  3. #103
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    The difference between paying attention to present sensory experience and mapping out sensory experience to create a standard (I assume you're talking Se/Si here) doesn't exist? What are you smoking?
    I said that based on your idea, Fe users take decisions based on opinions of others, while Fi users take decisions based on their personal opinions, and that is like if you said "Se is about external data (what is happening outside) and Si is about internal data (what is happening inside, like in my small intestine or my stomach for example). Do you realise how that is stupid?


    you're saying Isabel Myers is "more correct" about Jung's system that Jung is?
    Are you stupid? I said Isabel Myers designed a better system than Jung because she introduces the notion of J/P. And this is the true difference between Fi and Fe, like between Se and Si, Ne and Ni, Te and Ti etc.

    I am not using Isabel Myers' system. I am using Jung's function as Jung intended, rather than another version of them bearing the same name. You may be right, but that doesn't make me wrong.
    You use MBTI. You even designed an MBTI test. But you vehiculate wrong notions about that system, so you should STFU and go back to school.

    Naturally Fe users can have personal opinions.
    So you admit that you were wrong.

    However, what defines Fe is a preference for following group consensus over what they themselves might believe of a given subject.
    Not more than Fi; Every F types are conflicted between to defend their own opinions, to considerate other's opinions, and to reach consensus and harmony because they dislike conflicts.


    Ti (again, as Jung defined it) is not objective at all. It is logical, but it is based on its own deductive framework
    I've never said Ti was objective, but that Thinkers research objectivity above all to take decisions. Learn to read.

    rather than anything external.
    This is wrong, because Ti users always seek informations in order to nourish their thougts, via Se and Ne. Jung did not include the J/P notions and did'nt build a model to explain how peoples deal with the internal world when they are extrovert, or with the external world when they are introvert. Ho w they deal with sensation when they are intuitors or the thcontray, etc. He just wanted to etablish a list of archetypes (the extroverted feeeler, the introverted sensor, the introverted feeler etc).
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  4. #104
    Wallflower power! Punderstorm's Avatar
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    INFJ, good test.
    IxxP-Conscientious-Slytherin-Leisurely-Idiosyncratic-9w1-4w3-7w6-sp/so-LII-Ne


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  5. #105
    Senior Member wolfnara's Avatar
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    ENFP
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    -Rosa Luxemburg

  6. #106
    Damn American Cowboy Reborn Relic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfnara View Post
    ENFP
    Same actually. :p

    Also, I agree with whoever said earlier you could sort of already tell what the questions were representing before the quiz was finished, but in addition to that these questions also are hard to answer if you don't think about your thoughts and actions in those sorts of terms already. So it's sort of a double whammy for the Forer effect, I think.
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    Likes wolfnara, Cellmold liked this post

  7. #107

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    INFP

  8. #108
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    INFP

  9. #109
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    ISFP, but borderline on the I/E scale. Not something I get often.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  10. #110
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    I got.... Miniature Giant Space Hamster? Which presumably means... oh I'm a Delta but with an INTJ dichotomy preference... so ISTJ?
    Likes Masokissed liked this post

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