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The DDLI: An MBTI alternative with error checking

fduniho

New member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I actually thought you were saying this. Here is how I got there. You are saying that ethics is about "reason" as your argument for it not being about feeling.

No, I was not saying that. I was arguing that feeling cannot be defined as being about ethics, because reason can also be used to make ethical judgments. Both thinking and feeling can be used to make ethical judgments, and ethics is not the exclusive domain of either of these functions. Also, both can be used to make non-ethical judgments. For example, I use thinking to debug programs, and I sometimes use feeling to decide what music to listen to.

Therefore you are separating reason from feeling as two different things.

I would distinguish between thinking, which is a conscious use of reason, and feeling, which operates partly at an unconscious level but may still follow rational or quasi-rational procedures. Feeling is faster than thinking, but this can make it more prone to error. One difference between thinking and feeling is that feeling is more associative than thinking is. Feeling may notice similarities between things and jump to the conclusion that they are similar in other respects, such as when you meet someone who reminds you of someone you don't like. To some extent, feelings can be trained to be more rational, sort of like a dog being trained by a human. This is where virtue ethics comes in, where there is a conscious effort to adjust the feeling response to a mean between a deficiency and an excess, as in Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics I'll also point out that Antonio Damasio has argued in his book Descartes' Error that emotion plays an important role in rationality. As I recall from reading the book, people who were brain-damaged in ways that cut themselves off from emotional awareness behaved less rationally than other people.

Your example of emotion here makes me think we are arguing semantics. I don't think of "like" and "dislike" as emotions. To me emotions are things more like worried, afraid, happy, sad, etc. Like and dislike are the result of some kind of value judgment. Maybe we just have a terminology problem.

I normally feel emotional bonds toward people I like and emotional aversions toward people I dislike. So I don't think the difference is merely semantic. Also, the examples you give of emotions also involve value judgments. So I don't think there is such a clear-cut distinction between emotions and value judgments.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
If I've said anything contradictory, please point it out.

You try and equate the Feeling type's use of emotion with the feeling functions themselves. If Fi is "motivated by deeply-held moral values" - where are the values coming from? How are they developed? If it is Fe's "goal" to form & maintain "easy and harmonious emotional relationships with other people" - where is that goal coming from? WHY has Fe valued that emotional effect enough to make it a goal? Again - do you think Feelers work off emotion like an animal does instinct? You did not answer that question before.

I have read Gifts Differing, and when not taken out of context & twisted through interpretation, it never suggests that the Feeling functions are simply emotion. Carl Jung especially does not state or suggest this.

No, Fi & Fe are not simply concerned with morality, nor is morality the sole domain of feeling, but that does not mean they are not RATIONAL REASONING COGNITIVE FUNCTIONS.
 

fduniho

New member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
You try and equate the Feeling type's use of emotion with the feeling functions themselves. If Fi is "motivated by deeply-held moral values" - where are the values coming from? How are they developed? If it is Fe's "goal" to form & maintain "easy and harmonious emotional relationships with other people" - where is that goal coming from? WHY has Fe valued that emotional effect enough to make it a goal? Again - do you think Feelers work off emotion like an animal does instinct? You did not answer that question before.

You're posing questions, but you are not pointing out contradictions.

I have read Gifts Differing, and when not taken out of context & twisted through interpretation, it never suggests that the Feeling functions are simply emotion. Carl Jung especially does not state or suggest this.

I don't recall saying that the feeling functions are simply emotion. What I did say is "As understood by both Myers and Myers, Fe and Fi are different ways of using and managing emotions." I was mainly responding to the claim that they are not about emotion.

No, Fi & Fe are not simply concerned with morality, nor is morality the sole domain of feeling, but that does not mean they are not RATIONAL REASONING COGNITIVE FUNCTIONS.

I have already addressed why feeling is rational in the Jungian sense and why it is not necessarily irrational in the English sense. But whether it involves reasoning is another matter. One of the differences between thinking and feeling is that thinking makes itself explicitly visible, but feeling is a black box. Thinking will set out premises and explain, step-by-step if need be, how its conclusions logically follow. Thinking can easily explain itself and give others the same reasons for thinking the same. But feeling often leaves the question, why do I feel this way? This is because feeling works subconsciously. You can know what you feel much more easily than you can know why you feel it.

Feeling has some advantages over thinking. It is faster, and there is normally a stronger connection between feeling and action than there is between thinking and action. But these advantages do have their costs. One is that you cannot verify the validity of a feeling like you can the validity of an argument. This gives thinking a greater degree of error checking than feeling, and it allows thinking to reach true conclusions more reliably. Whether or not feeling uses reasoning is hard to determine, because the subconscious processes that produce feeling judgments are not made explicit in the same way that logical reasoning is.

In discussing the relation between feeling and emotion, Aleksei described a feeling type as "a person who makes choices based on what they in their gut feel is right or wrong; on ideals." This brings up an important distinction that gets covered in the Enneagram but not in Jung or the MBTI. The Enneagram types are divided into three groups, what Richard Rohr calls the Head, Heart, and Gut types. There is an important distinction to be made between emotions and gut feelings. I don't think Jung ever did it justice. This leaves open the question of whether feeling is about emotions, gut feelings, or both clumped together. It may be that the Enneagram's tripartite distinction is more accurate than Jung's binary distinction between thinking and feeling.
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
Tried this again (rather carefully)

Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is INTP.

Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 34 / 13
Extraversion: 25 / 13

Intuition: 43 / 17
Sensing: 22 / 17

Thinking: 34 / 20
Feeling: 45 / 20

Perceiving: 29 / 16
Judging: 33 / 16

Dominant Judger: 29 / 11
Dominant Perceiver: 14 / 11

Introverted Sensing: 8 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 17 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 5 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 18 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 14 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 4 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 22 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 23 / 11



This test has a bias toward INTP. This bias has shown up in the analysis of actual scores provided by people who know their type, and I predicted it beforehand on the grounds that I am an INTP, and there might be some bias toward my own type. Based on an analysis of actual results, it appears that many INFJs, INFPs, and ENTPs are scoring as INTPs. So, I urge you to regard your results with skepticism and also look into the possibility that you are one of these three types.

:thinking:

The Ni vs Ne questions kind of threw me off the most..
 

Quay

Peaced
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
271
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is INFJ.

Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 37 / 12
Extraversion: 4 / 12

Intuition: 42 / 15
Sensing: 16 / 15

Thinking: 18 / 18
Feeling: 45 / 18

Perceiving: 30 / 15
Judging: 15 / 15

Dominant Judger: 19 / 8
Dominant Perceiver: 12 / 8

Introverted Sensing: 8 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 15 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 8 / 4
Extraverted Intuition: 8 / 4

Introverted Thinking: 11 / 4
Extraverted Thinking: 4 / 4

Introverted Feeling: 8 / 9
Extraverted Feeling: 27 / 9

*to add, I answered "no" to knowing my type....i still don't think I'm INFJ.
 

Noon

New member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
790
Introversion: 38/13
Extraversion: 6/13

Intuition: 15/15
Sensing: 25/15

Thinking: 16/20
Feeling: 48/20

Perceiving: 38/14
Judging: 10/14

Dominant Judger: 24/10
Dominant Perceiver: 10/10

Introverted Sensing: 16/6
Extraverted Sensing: 2/6

Introverted Intuition: 8/4
Extraverted Intuition: 7/4

Introverted Thinking: 14/4
Extraverted Thinking: 0/4

Introverted Feeling: 29/9
Extraverted Feeling: 3/9

Every time I take this test, I get ISFP with conflicting scores. Guess I'll just have to settle for being an ISFP with insane Si or something. :mellow:
 

Queen Kat

The Duchess of Oddity
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
3,053
MBTI Type
E.T.
Enneagram
7w8
Jesus Christ, I shouldn't made that test. Focussing for so long killed my brain!




Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is ENTP.

Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 15 / 13
Extraversion: 23 / 13

Intuition: 33 / 17
Sensing: 30 / 17

Thinking: 49 / 19
Feeling: 14 / 19

Perceiving: 39 / 16
Judging: 18 / 16

Dominant Judger: 6 / 11
Dominant Perceiver: 30 / 11

Introverted Sensing: 18 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 10 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 2 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 17 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 10 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 12 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 28 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 16 / 11


Te/Ti and Fe/Fi were conflicting
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
tonight: ENFP with more Ti than Te
 

Silveresque

Active member
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
INTP

Introversion: 55 / 12
Extraversion: 4 / 12

Intuition: 27 / 17
Sensing: 22 / 17

Thinking: 33 / 18
Feeling: 25 / 18

Perceiving: 40 / 13
Judging: 9 / 13

Dominant Judger: 29 / 9
Dominant Perceiver: 11 / 9

Introverted Sensing: 13 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 5 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 15 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 7 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 10 / 4
Extraverted Thinking: 0 / 4

Introverted Feeling: 17 / 10
Extraverted Feeling: 28 / 10

I came out more Fe than Fi. That's interesting....:thinking:
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is INFP.

Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.
Introversion: 28 / 13
Extraversion: 16 / 13

Intuition: 43 / 17
Sensing: 3 / 17

Thinking: 8 / 20
Feeling: 42 / 20

Perceiving: 59 / 16
Judging: 0 / 16

Dominant Judger: 16 / 11
Dominant Perceiver: 17 / 11

Introverted Sensing: 17 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 3 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 11 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 9 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 7 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 6 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 26 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 11 / 11
 

Tyrinth

...
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
649
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Taken together, your scores indicate that you are an INFP. There was either some slight conflict between related scores, or some of your scores were insufficient to fully confirm your preferences. Check below for details. Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.
Introversion: 37 / 13
Extraversion: 13 / 13

Intuition: 26 / 14
Sensing: 15 / 14

Thinking: 17 / 17
Feeling: 40 / 17

Perceiving: 45 / 15
Judging: 3 / 15

Dominant Judger: 22 / 10
Dominant Perceiver: 14 / 10

Introverted Sensing: 21 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 0 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 7 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 7 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 10 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 7 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 23 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 14 / 11

Interesting.
 

mikamickmac

New member
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
60
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
so
Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is INTP.

Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.
Introversion: 17 / 12
Extraversion: 19 / 12

Intuition: 26 / 16
Sensing: 16 / 16

Thinking: 29 / 20
Feeling: 27 / 20

Perceiving: 49 / 16
Judging: 6 / 16

Dominant Judger: 22 / 11
Dominant Perceiver: 11 / 11

Introverted Sensing: 11 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 10 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 6 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 11 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 19 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 0 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 10 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 25 / 11

The E/I debate that rages in my head continues
 

ScarletRose

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2011
Messages
22
MBTI Type
ISxx
Enneagram
4w5
Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is ISFP.

Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 41 / 13
Extraversion: 13 / 13

Intuition: 28 / 16
Sensing: 25 / 16

Thinking: 18 / 17
Feeling: 35 / 17

Perceiving: 39 / 14
Judging: 13 / 14

Dominant Judger: 7 / 8
Dominant Perceiver: 20 / 8

Introverted Sensing: 7 / 5
Extraverted Sensing: 13 / 5

Introverted Intuition: 11 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 9 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 2 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 13 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 16 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 23 / 11



I think a few things got messed up on here because I pretty much skipped the decision making questions (I was being too indecisive lol) and some of the ones I could easily relate to both answers, so I tried to see if there was one that weighed a little more than the other.

I am very surprised my Fi isn't higher, that's the first thing everyone comments on for my writing, that Fi is pouring out from everywhere in that, very odd.
 

King sns

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
6,714
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Really interesting cognitive function results.. (The T's!)
Long and boring test that I had in my tabs for two days and threw some answers down here and there.

Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is ENFP.
Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 17 / 13
Extraversion: 15 / 13

Intuition: 35 / 17
Sensing: 16 / 17

Thinking: 6 / 20
Feeling: 57 / 20

Perceiving: 52 / 16
Judging: 3 / 16

Dominant Judger: 13 / 11
Dominant Perceiver: 22 / 11

Introverted Sensing: 10 / 6
Extraverted Sensing: 8 / 6

Introverted Intuition: 7 / 5
Extraverted Intuition: 10 / 5

Introverted Thinking: 16 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 0 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 16 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 16 / 11
 

citizen cane

ornery ornithologist
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
Messages
3,854
MBTI Type
BIRD
Enneagram
631
Instinctual Variant
sp
I got ESTJ and felt quite sure of the way I answered the questions. Heh.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm apparently an introvert now... :thelook:...

though notes on the test design here-

I would want to know how the different strengths of feeling were weighted... are they weighted in equal interval or not? human nature tends to gravitate towards the center option if in doubt which means that most of the time when people should be choosing weak they will probably choose moderate because on the average test the middle option means no strong feelings...

putting two universal desirables in opposition to one another is a good way to get someone to choose skip, since who wants to have to choose between love and honesty? :huh:

there need to be pictures or things need to be divided into separate pages... I had to keep flipping back to the test because I couldn't pay attention to an unbroken page for that long which meant that the consistency of my answers was interrupted :(
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,706
MBTI Type
ZNTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This was a cool format... I'm surprised with how much I skipped through that I'm only slightly conflicted :tongue:


Taken together, your scores indicate that you are an ENTP. There was either some slight conflict between related scores, or some of your scores were insufficient to fully confirm your preferences. Check below for details. Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 4 / 8
Extraversion: 14 / 8

Intuition: 61 / 16
Sensing: 0 / 16

Thinking: 20 / 10
Feeling: 2 / 10

Perceiving: 30 / 12
Judging: 2 / 12

Dominant Judger: 6 / 6
Dominant Perceiver: 9 / 6

Introverted Sensing: 3 / 4
Extraverted Sensing: 9 / 4

Introverted Intuition: 0 / 3
Extraverted Intuition: 9 / 3

Introverted Thinking: 2 / 1
Extraverted Thinking: 0 / 1

Introverted Feeling: 2 / 6
Extraverted Feeling: 14 / 6


Does this mean that my Se and Ne are tied and my highest category is Fe? That settles it, I'm a typological freak of nature ;)
 

Malcontent

New member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
258
MBTI Type
abcd
Your scores are not in full agreement regarding your type. Using a decision procedure that ranks the relative strength of your preferences, the best estimate of your type is INTP.
Here are your more detailed results, preference by preference.

Introversion: 33 / 13
Extraversion: 14 / 13

Intuition: 42 / 17
Sensing: 16 / 17

Thinking: 41 / 20
Feeling: 25 / 20

Perceiving: 17 / 14
Judging: 31 / 14

Dominant Judger: 17 / 11
Dominant Perceiver: 21 / 11

Introverted Sensing: 17 / 7

Extraverted Sensing: 10 / 7

Introverted Intuition: 3 / 4
Extraverted Intuition: 11 / 4

Introverted Thinking: 16 / 5
Extraverted Thinking: 4 / 5

Introverted Feeling: 16 / 11
Extraverted Feeling: 23 / 11


I am a strong letter J, but functions say I am an intp...
So what I am? A rigid planner intp??!!

:unsure::unsure::unsure:
 
G

garbage

Guest
Neat :popc1:

This sort of test format is definitely better than "forced choice" response tests.

IZEOt.png


Also, I'm a huge fan of PHP/mySQL

took this one again for no reason

wEWpn.png
 
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