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  1. #141
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    *cough*


    ISFP

    E 5 I 9
    S 9 N 5
    T 4 F 10
    P 11 J 3

  2. #142
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    INTJ

    E 5 I 9
    S 2 N 12
    T 10 F 4
    P 5 J 9

    I have always gotten J on this test. Some of the questions make P's sound like they mindlessly act without thinking, which doesn't appeal to me at all. I strongly prefer to look before I leap into things, and want to know what's likely to happen before I try something. I'm a pretty careful, cautious person. I don't think that's necessarily J. I think its the EP types that are more likely than the IPs to just jump into stuff without thinking of possible consequences.

    I also *hate* interruptions. I don't like working extended periods on something tedious without a break but I hate interruptions more. Once I get focused on something, I can get a tunnel vision and not wanna let go.

    I'm open to changes in plans when necessary but if you're going to go through the bother of making plans, you should try to follow through on them if possible.

    It's very possible I am more J than P. Which reminds me of the thread Marmalade.Sunrise posted about identifying with a certain type on a letter-by-letter basis but a different type on a functional basis. Letter by letter, I'm more like an INTJ, but function wise, I'm more like the INTP.

    I have Lenore's book and the INTJ description only fits so-so. I identified more with Ti, Te, and even Si than I did with Ni (in spite of my whopping 12 points on N).
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  3. #143
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Default According to Lenore Thomson, I'm a J

    In this post I'm going to explain my rationale for answering the J/P questions as I did. Just because I've got time to kill and I feel like nitpicking test questions. I've bolded the response I gave.


    Which are you better at?
    shifting gears and multi-tasking?
    focusing on one task until it’s done?

    Sometimes I have trouble starting tasks, but once I've started, I'm like a steamroller that doesn't always know how to stop. If I really get going on something, it can be difficult for me to set something momentarily aside.

    Which kind of job do you like better?
    one that allows you to react quickly and improvise?
    one that allows you to determine goals and take steps to meet them?

    I don't mind improvising when its on my own terms. I'd hate it if external circumstances were always forcing me to it. I prefer a slower, more leisurely pace when working. That might by the introversion at work. I'm not the most goal oriented. Not that I don't set goals, I do, but they are the more general sort. I don't like jobs either where you are forced to set goals and write periodic progress reports. I do find the second option overall more appealing.

    I may try something impulsively, just to see what happens.
    I want to know what’s likely to happen before I try something.

    Very strongly the second option. I don't have to know *exactly* what's going to happen but I need to have a good idea of what might happen. Before I take any action, I map different possible scenarios in my mind and assess a rough probability for each. I then ask myself, what are the potential drawbacks in each scenario, and if the worst case scenario were to happen, would I psychologically be able to cope with the consequences? If I feel the consequences would be too overwhelming and the worst case scenario too probable for comfort, I probably won't take action. This is the mindset I have for deciding just about every action. It's like I cannot not think before doing something. I could see how all this scenario mapping is Ni+Te in action.


    I like to leave room for new options, even after plans have been made.
    Once plans have been made, I want to be able to count on them.

    Moderate preference towards the second choice. I do like some wiggle room in my plans but generally I'm of the mindset that if you're going to go through the bother of making plans, you should try to follow them if at all possible. If plans are changed, I prefer a minor change, not something radically different out of the blue.


    I tend to learn by experience, so I often have my own way of doing things.
    I generally learn by following instructions and adapting them to my needs.

    This is probably the only question where I can answer as a P with complete confidence. I can see some value in the second option and do that to some extent but in general, I'm the sort of person that needs to find and establish my own rhythm. I can actually see this as being more S/N related than J/P related.

    I need a break now and then when I’m working on something.
    I would rather not be interrupted when I’m working on something.

    I do like breaks now and then- especially on tedious tasks, but I need to be able to dictate the terms of those breaks, not have them thrust upon me by external circumstances. I *hate* being interrupted once I really get into doing something.

    take things as they come, doing whatever you feel like at the moment?
    work out a tentative schedule of things you want to do?

    This is a difficult to answer question. I do have a list of things I'd like to do. I don't tightly schedule things, its more a list of things that I'd like to do at some time or another on my trip. If I'm going to a certain destination, I do have a few must see's and must do's and if I don't see or do them, I kind of feel like the vacation has been wasted in a way, even if overall I had a good time. This is because likely, it will be a long time before I get to that destination again.

    I guess I went with the first option because I thinking about what I prefer to do for the most part. It's true I have some must see/do's but for the most part, I keep my vacation plans flexible. Having too many have to's or having too tight a schedule is stressful and takes the fun out of the trip.


    forget about your everyday routines and concentrate on having fun?
    think about things you need to prepare for when the vacation is over?

    Again, I identify with both options. I prefer the first one because, what fun is a vacation if you're always thinking about what you should be getting done? But I still do think about those things to some extent when on vacation. If I feel like my vacation would put me too far behind on things that need to get done, I'd be likely to postpone it to a better time. I'd try to get a lot done beforehand, so that I could relax more on my trip and not have to worry about the mounds of work awaiting me when I return. So I still feel my thinking is pretty J here.


    spontaneous
    systematic

    Slightly more b than a. I like systems when they are of my own making and when there's some wiggle room. I can be spontaneous too though. If I were to ask people what they see more as, they would probably choose option b.


    adaptable
    organized

    Slightly more a than b. Really, I'm both. It's true I don't like sudden or radical changes thrust upon me but if I have some advance warning and I can ease into it, then I can be very adaptable. I feel like I'm one of the few in my workplace that isn't complaining about the changes in the way things are done. I like the changes, unlike most people. But this could be more of an N thing. I see the exciting possibilities the changes could bring.

    On the other hand, I'm quite organized for an INTP, if that is in fact my type. Alot of my organizational skills have been learned over time. I wasn't particularly organized in my childhood years.


    enthusiastic
    deliberate

    Another difficult question. If you were to ask others, most would see me as deliberate so I'm going with that. I'm cautious and think before acting. I'm very enthusiastic about many things but don't show it so much on the outside. I'm also careful not to get carried away in my enthusiasm.

    open-ended
    goal-oriented

    I don't really know, honestly. I do set goals, but I wouldn't say I'm especially goal oriented since my goals aren't highly specific. I'm not so good at setting my own timetables and sticking to them. I'm open-ended in terms of being flexible and open to new input, yet I can't stand having loose ends and unresolved issues.


    put off unpleasant chores until you’re in the right mood?
    get unpleasant chores out of the way so they’re off your mind?

    I find it unpleasant to think about upcoming unpleasant things you know you'll have to do sooner or later. Therefore, I generally think its better to just get them out of the way sooner than later. Seems like there's less unpleasantness overall that way. On the other hand, I do procrastinate at times on chores but not excessively.

    He who hesitates is lost.
    Look before you leap.

    Moderately B. I'm very much a careful sort of person who weighs the consequences before acting. However, I do see some value in the first option. Do you really want to live you life just thinking all the time and never taking any action?
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  4. #144
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Default More Thoughts on J/P as Lenore Describes it

    I went and reviewed over the J/P section in Lenore's book and I do think I relate more to J than P, the way she describes it.

    Here's a snippet of what she says about J that really stood out as being true for me:

    "J types handle outward events rationally, by anticipating the predictable and being prepared for it. They don't want their hand forced by unanticipated circumstances. They want to organize their experience in advance so they know what's essential and can attend to it in terms of their goals."


    What's really interesting is the J and P types different takes on freedom. According to Thomson:

    "P types who are response ready naturally understand freedom as the absence of constraint. They want the ability to take immediate action, as a situation is occuring, without having to explain it to themselves or reckon with prior limits."

    "J types understand freedom from the opposite perspective. Without plans or expectations, one has no choice but to be response ready, constantly alert to all the data available in a situation. This lack of choice makes J types feel trapped. It forces them to react, and only to react, without recourse."


    Going by those descriptions, I definitely relate to the J one more. I do relate to the P one at times, but the J description seems to perfectly reflect my mindset. I would find having to always be response ready to be torture.


    Here's another snippet, from Thomson I found really interesting:

    "P types are a bit like surfers. They make decisions by recognizing the right wave and "going with it," relying on their natural skills and past experience to handle problems as they arise. Like a surfer shifting to maintain balance, P types count on their ability to improvise, and their reflexes are often keen.

    If improvisation doesn't work, however, the experience is simply ruined. Once you've fallen off the board, there's nothing more to be done. The moment is gone. P types in this situation are crushed and disappointed and feel exposed as inadequate. Indeed when P types find themselves contending with circumstances in which they have neither skills nor experience to count on, they die a thousand deaths, anticipating all manner of awful things that could go wrong.

    J types aren't like this. Not that they react well to failure. No one does. But they have more patience with obstacles. They don't invest their self-worth in the successful outcome of one moment. They make plans with an eye toward using them again, and they expect to refine them over time. If a system doesn't work, a J type will get frustrated, but ultimately regards the failure as a useful piece of information. It suggests a way to anticipate the problem or prevent it before it happens."


    Again, I see myself more in the J description than the P one. It seems like P's have a more all-or-none attitude with high highs and low lows. I try to structure my life so that I'm not just putting all my eggs in one basket, so that if the outcome is not as I hoped, not everything is ruined. I also find that I do alot of refining systems over time to get the desired result a greater percent of the time.

    So what do you all think? Could I be more J than P?

    When I have time, I'll read over Lenore's function descriptions more closely. It's been a couple years since I've read the chapters on all the different types but I remember not identifying with the INTJ chapter all that much even though I scored solidly as that type. So I'm confused.
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  5. #145
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Your TMPI answers suggest that your type preference is:

    ENTP

    E 13 I 1
    S 2 N 12
    T 9 F 5
    P 8 J 6

    If your scores were even in a category, you'll see an X in place of a letter. Short profiles, currently available as full chapters in the book, Personality Type: An Owner’s Manual, will eventually be part of this site.

    -----------------------------------

    The test was quite good, I didnt know with 90 % of the questions what special function they were asking for, tho neverthless E 13 I 1 dismissed
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #146
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    INTJ

    E 5 I 9
    S 2 N 12
    T 10 F 4
    P 5 J 9

    I have always gotten J on this test. Some of the questions make P's sound like they mindlessly act without thinking, which doesn't appeal to me at all. I strongly prefer to look before I leap into things, and want to know what's likely to happen before I try something. I'm a pretty careful, cautious person. I don't think that's necessarily J. I think its the EP types that are more likely than the IPs to just jump into stuff without thinking of possible consequences.

    I also *hate* interruptions. I don't like working extended periods on something tedious without a break but I hate interruptions more. Once I get focused on something, I can get a tunnel vision and not wanna let go.

    I'm open to changes in plans when necessary but if you're going to go through the bother of making plans, you should try to follow through on them if possible.

    It's very possible I am more J than P. Which reminds me of the thread Marmalade.Sunrise posted about identifying with a certain type on a letter-by-letter basis but a different type on a functional basis. Letter by letter, I'm more like an INTJ, but function wise, I'm more like the INTP.

    I have Lenore's book and the INTJ description only fits so-so. I identified more with Ti, Te, and even Si than I did with Ni (in spite of my whopping 12 points on N).
    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    In this post I'm going to explain my rationale for answering the J/P questions as I did. Just because I've got time to kill and I feel like nitpicking test questions. I've bolded the response I gave.


    Which are you better at?
    shifting gears and multi-tasking?
    focusing on one task until it’s done?

    Sometimes I have trouble starting tasks, but once I've started, I'm like a steamroller that doesn't always know how to stop. If I really get going on something, it can be difficult for me to set something momentarily aside.

    Which kind of job do you like better?
    one that allows you to react quickly and improvise?
    one that allows you to determine goals and take steps to meet them?

    I don't mind improvising when its on my own terms. I'd hate it if external circumstances were always forcing me to it. I prefer a slower, more leisurely pace when working. That might by the introversion at work. I'm not the most goal oriented. Not that I don't set goals, I do, but they are the more general sort. I don't like jobs either where you are forced to set goals and write periodic progress reports. I do find the second option overall more appealing.

    I may try something impulsively, just to see what happens.
    I want to know what’s likely to happen before I try something.

    Very strongly the second option. I don't have to know *exactly* what's going to happen but I need to have a good idea of what might happen. Before I take any action, I map different possible scenarios in my mind and assess a rough probability for each. I then ask myself, what are the potential drawbacks in each scenario, and if the worst case scenario were to happen, would I psychologically be able to cope with the consequences? If I feel the consequences would be too overwhelming and the worst case scenario too probable for comfort, I probably won't take action. This is the mindset I have for deciding just about every action. It's like I cannot not think before doing something. I could see how all this scenario mapping is Ni+Te in action.


    I like to leave room for new options, even after plans have been made.
    Once plans have been made, I want to be able to count on them.

    Moderate preference towards the second choice. I do like some wiggle room in my plans but generally I'm of the mindset that if you're going to go through the bother of making plans, you should try to follow them if at all possible. If plans are changed, I prefer a minor change, not something radically different out of the blue.


    I tend to learn by experience, so I often have my own way of doing things.
    I generally learn by following instructions and adapting them to my needs.

    This is probably the only question where I can answer as a P with complete confidence. I can see some value in the second option and do that to some extent but in general, I'm the sort of person that needs to find and establish my own rhythm. I can actually see this as being more S/N related than J/P related.

    I need a break now and then when I’m working on something.
    I would rather not be interrupted when I’m working on something.

    I do like breaks now and then- especially on tedious tasks, but I need to be able to dictate the terms of those breaks, not have them thrust upon me by external circumstances. I *hate* being interrupted once I really get into doing something.

    take things as they come, doing whatever you feel like at the moment?
    work out a tentative schedule of things you want to do?

    This is a difficult to answer question. I do have a list of things I'd like to do. I don't tightly schedule things, its more a list of things that I'd like to do at some time or another on my trip. If I'm going to a certain destination, I do have a few must see's and must do's and if I don't see or do them, I kind of feel like the vacation has been wasted in a way, even if overall I had a good time. This is because likely, it will be a long time before I get to that destination again.

    I guess I went with the first option because I thinking about what I prefer to do for the most part. It's true I have some must see/do's but for the most part, I keep my vacation plans flexible. Having too many have to's or having too tight a schedule is stressful and takes the fun out of the trip.


    forget about your everyday routines and concentrate on having fun?
    think about things you need to prepare for when the vacation is over?

    Again, I identify with both options. I prefer the first one because, what fun is a vacation if you're always thinking about what you should be getting done? But I still do think about those things to some extent when on vacation. If I feel like my vacation would put me too far behind on things that need to get done, I'd be likely to postpone it to a better time. I'd try to get a lot done beforehand, so that I could relax more on my trip and not have to worry about the mounds of work awaiting me when I return. So I still feel my thinking is pretty J here.


    spontaneous
    systematic

    Slightly more b than a. I like systems when they are of my own making and when there's some wiggle room. I can be spontaneous too though. If I were to ask people what they see more as, they would probably choose option b.


    adaptable
    organized

    Slightly more a than b. Really, I'm both. It's true I don't like sudden or radical changes thrust upon me but if I have some advance warning and I can ease into it, then I can be very adaptable. I feel like I'm one of the few in my workplace that isn't complaining about the changes in the way things are done. I like the changes, unlike most people. But this could be more of an N thing. I see the exciting possibilities the changes could bring.

    On the other hand, I'm quite organized for an INTP, if that is in fact my type. Alot of my organizational skills have been learned over time. I wasn't particularly organized in my childhood years.


    enthusiastic
    deliberate

    Another difficult question. If you were to ask others, most would see me as deliberate so I'm going with that. I'm cautious and think before acting. I'm very enthusiastic about many things but don't show it so much on the outside. I'm also careful not to get carried away in my enthusiasm.

    open-ended
    goal-oriented

    I don't really know, honestly. I do set goals, but I wouldn't say I'm especially goal oriented since my goals aren't highly specific. I'm not so good at setting my own timetables and sticking to them. I'm open-ended in terms of being flexible and open to new input, yet I can't stand having loose ends and unresolved issues.


    put off unpleasant chores until you’re in the right mood?
    get unpleasant chores out of the way so they’re off your mind?

    I find it unpleasant to think about upcoming unpleasant things you know you'll have to do sooner or later. Therefore, I generally think its better to just get them out of the way sooner than later. Seems like there's less unpleasantness overall that way. On the other hand, I do procrastinate at times on chores but not excessively.

    He who hesitates is lost.
    Look before you leap.

    Moderately B. I'm very much a careful sort of person who weighs the consequences before acting. However, I do see some value in the first option. Do you really want to live you life just thinking all the time and never taking any action?
    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I went and reviewed over the J/P section in Lenore's book and I do think I relate more to J than P, the way she describes it.

    Here's a snippet of what she says about J that really stood out as being true for me:

    "J types handle outward events rationally, by anticipating the predictable and being prepared for it. They don't want their hand forced by unanticipated circumstances. They want to organize their experience in advance so they know what's essential and can attend to it in terms of their goals."


    What's really interesting is the J and P types different takes on freedom. According to Thomson:

    "P types who are response ready naturally understand freedom as the absence of constraint. They want the ability to take immediate action, as a situation is occuring, without having to explain it to themselves or reckon with prior limits."

    "J types understand freedom from the opposite perspective. Without plans or expectations, one has no choice but to be response ready, constantly alert to all the data available in a situation. This lack of choice makes J types feel trapped. It forces them to react, and only to react, without recourse."


    Going by those descriptions, I definitely relate to the J one more. I do relate to the P one at times, but the J description seems to perfectly reflect my mindset. I would find having to always be response ready to be torture.


    Here's another snippet, from Thomson I found really interesting:

    "P types are a bit like surfers. They make decisions by recognizing the right wave and "going with it," relying on their natural skills and past experience to handle problems as they arise. Like a surfer shifting to maintain balance, P types count on their ability to improvise, and their reflexes are often keen.

    If improvisation doesn't work, however, the experience is simply ruined. Once you've fallen off the board, there's nothing more to be done. The moment is gone. P types in this situation are crushed and disappointed and feel exposed as inadequate. Indeed when P types find themselves contending with circumstances in which they have neither skills nor experience to count on, they die a thousand deaths, anticipating all manner of awful things that could go wrong.

    J types aren't like this. Not that they react well to failure. No one does. But they have more patience with obstacles. They don't invest their self-worth in the successful outcome of one moment. They make plans with an eye toward using them again, and they expect to refine them over time. If a system doesn't work, a J type will get frustrated, but ultimately regards the failure as a useful piece of information. It suggests a way to anticipate the problem or prevent it before it happens."


    Again, I see myself more in the J description than the P one. It seems like P's have a more all-or-none attitude with high highs and low lows. I try to structure my life so that I'm not just putting all my eggs in one basket, so that if the outcome is not as I hoped, not everything is ruined. I also find that I do alot of refining systems over time to get the desired result a greater percent of the time.

    So what do you all think? Could I be more J than P?

    When I have time, I'll read over Lenore's function descriptions more closely. It's been a couple years since I've read the chapters on all the different types but I remember not identifying with the INTJ chapter all that much even though I scored solidly as that type. So I'm confused.
    Just take on the J and stop thinking about it. Taking on the J means taking on the J, there will be no mama patting your back ! Be a man, ffs !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #147
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Just take on the J and stop thinking about it. Taking on the J means taking on the J, there will be no mama patting your back ! Be a man, ffs !
    Alright, alright, alright, then!

    It's official, SuchIrony is an INTJ!

    See that wasn't so hard!



    A few seconds later....


    So why am I still having doubts about the whole J/P thing? I feel like if I was a true J, I would be more sure of Jness.

    Whatever.

    For now I'm going with MBTI INTJ and INTP by functions until proven otherwise.
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  8. #148
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    X for extinct, prolly worried too much

    Imo you're maybe caught in the NeTi loop ( I like to call it NeTi cause it sounds like Seti or Yeti, but hasnt got anything to do with entp ). Ti seeks for the final answer, the last statement, a graspable, logical conclusion. Fact here tho is the mathematical system is flawed, mbti does never ever provide that, since it is, as it states about preference. Ne on the offhand in the meantime fuels you with new ideas to somehow maybe get the last statement, cause it bugs you and eats your from the inside that you do not that you CANT find the right answer.

    I know the feeling all to well.

    The NiTe loop on the other hand just makes shit up for themselves and believes in it. Following the INTJ attitude like "I have been INTJ when I took the test at age 12 and I am INTJ now when I took the test at age 39" Imagine that said with a deep grumpy voice and then you think to yourself, wow this guy has accomplished a lot. Hasnt changed a bit for 39 - 12 years that's an accomplishment you can brag to the girls about
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #149

    Default

    INTP

    E 3 I 11
    S 2 N 12
    T 10 F 4
    P 10 J 4


    I was promised a new type! lol

  10. #150
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    INTJ

    E 2 I 12
    S 5 N 9
    T 12 F 2
    P 3 J 11

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