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  1. #81
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Eric, I just wanted to explain my selections further now that I have a bit of time.

    I decide upon Supine Phlegmatic for inclusion because of the ambiverted nature of the temperament. I've always been shy, reserved, commitment and service oriented, and relatively private. At the same time, I've also been quite a bit socially aggressive(social ladder climbing). As a young-er person, people viewed me as very outgoing, friendly, upbeat, popular, and enthusiastic. I have a handful of lifelong friends. I went through a traumatic period in my life and I changed in the process. I can't say that I'm remotely socially aggressive anymore. I turn down quite a number of opportunities to befriend people. The again, my priorities have changed, and I've apparently gotten older too. I never minded being alone though, or felt "lonely" in being by myself, so long as it was my decision and not a form of punishment. Journaling, reading, and daydreaming kept me occupied enough.
    To be technical, "ambivert" would be Phlegmatic Supine, because it expresses moderately like a Phlegmatic. You could say Supine Phlegmatic responds as an ambivert, though.
    Now, you're saying you were shy and reserved, yet socially aggressive and people saw you as outgoing. Sounds like you respond more than you express.
    And thren circumstances changed it. You're probably somewhere close to the center of the map, in the Supine range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiana View Post
    For the affection, I am very Sanguine with my husband, but only with my husband. The Melancholy part fits in where I said, "I am not physically affectionate with almost everyone else (except relatives, but that's different). I don't mind physical affection from close friends but generally do not need much of it and rarely give it."

    I wouldn't say I am the don't-touch-me type, but I am not touchy feely at all either (except with my husband). Does that still sound like Sanguine?
    Then you might be what the FIRO manual (Leo Ryan) calls the "Affectionate Homebody", which translates into Melancholy in Inclusion-Sanguine in Affection.
    Inclusion tells you who is in or out of the relationship. For a Melancholy or Choleric, most are out, unless they meet a criteria (Ryan calls it the "Exclusive Club" mentality). For those who get int to the Club, Affection then determines how affectionate or open/closed they are.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  2. #82
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    You had said you had printed out my page, way back.
    heh. I'm too old to remember stuff like that.

    Yes, and it was actually over my wife and I! The guy was complaining because we weren't ordering beers.
    ... and after all those $10 shots of tequila too!
    Some noive.

    To me, I would not start a fight over that either. There are a lot worse things people have done so something like that was the least. I just figured it was some cranky old guy, so what can you expect from him? This would be the introversion, and I was in his place, so I did not feel he really crossed any boundary of mine.
    True, you were in "his" place, and you're introverted... but depending on how it was approached, there's also politeness that should be involved. Still, I wasn't there.

    My point was mostly that, while a direct/control strategy is not my first choice, if I feel it's important enough or I'm pushed enough, I'll gear into it and then it can get sort of ugly. Because at that point I'm usually sure of what I'm doing and don't have a reason to gear out of it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #83
    Senior Member Kristiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Then you might be what the FIRO manual (Leo Ryan) calls the "Affectionate Homebody", which translates into Melancholy in Inclusion-Sanguine in Affection.
    Inclusion tells you who is in or out of the relationship. For a Melancholy or Choleric, most are out, unless they meet a criteria (Ryan calls it the "Exclusive Club" mentality). For those who get int to the Club, Affection then determines how affectionate or open/closed they are.
    Ah okay, that makes sense. Melancholy in Inclusion-Sanguine in Affection is a possible fit for me... except, I am NOT AT ALL "Strong attention to detail, meticulous" as it describes for the Melancholy in Inclusion. I am NOT AT ALL "Slow-paced, works at a steady, slow pace and loses momentum as the day progresses" either... I am very fast paced, I work very quickly, I multi-task nearly all the time, I am not steady and work in bursts of energy, and I have an extremely high processing speed. I am not extremely private either, nor would I say I am a homebody.

    The weaknesses fit quite well.

    Does that still fit Melancholy in Inclusion?


    For Sanguine in Affection, "Has tendency to adopt behaviors and moralities of others in order to be accepted -- which may be good or bad, depending" does NOT fit AT ALL. Neither of the weaknesses fit me, either. The rest, however, fits very well.

    Thanks
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  4. #84
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Well, you said Phlegmatic Melancholy in Inclusion. I was just rounding it off to the pure temperament, but it would be a similar dynamic (PM in Inclusion/Sanguine in Affection), yet the PM will be a bit different from the pure Melancholy in some respects.
    And the temperaments moderate each other, so for someone who's a blend like you, the Sanguine in Affection will come out differently than for a pure Sanguine in all three areas.
    Last edited by Eric B; 03-05-2010 at 09:11 AM.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  5. #85
    Senior Member Kristiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, you said Phlegmatic Melancholy in Inclusion. I was just rounding it off to the pure temperament, but it would be a similar dynamic (PM in Inclusion/Sanguine in Control), yet the PM will be a bit different from the pure Malcholy in some respects.
    And the temperaments moderate each other, so for someone who's a blend like you, the Sanguine in Aafection will come out differently than for a pure Sangione in all tjhree areas.
    That makes sense, thanks
    j'adore les chats

  6. #86
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    To be technical, "ambivert" would be Phlegmatic Supine, because it expresses moderately like a Phlegmatic. You could say Supine Phlegmatic responds as an ambivert, though.
    Now, you're saying you were shy and reserved, yet socially aggressive and people saw you as outgoing. Sounds like you respond more than you express.
    And thren circumstances changed it. You're probably somewhere close to the center of the map, in the Supine range.
    Yes, I'd say I respond more than I initiate; unless, I happen to know exactly what my role is to be in the interaction. In that case, I will actively initiate. I just need to know what's what in advance, which usually isn't the case in social situations. So I'll sit back and figure it all out first, if that makes any sense. That would be Supine?
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  7. #87
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Yes, Supine, but probably higher in the expressed range (more toward the right of the quadrant in the map).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    True, you were in "his" place, and you're introverted... but depending on how it was approached, there's also politeness that should be involved. Still, I wasn't there.
    I've been forced to deal with a lot more than impolitness from people, so again, his impoliteness to me just looks bad on him, not me.

    My point was mostly that, while a direct/control strategy is not my first choice, if I feel it's important enough or I'm pushed enough, I'll gear into it and then it can get sort of ugly. Because at that point I'm usually sure of what I'm doing and don't have a reason to gear out of it.
    As I said in the PM, you sound so much like me, and could still be Choleric in Control; just tempered away by the Supine in other areas. The same with Kristiana, for that matter. The Melancholy in Inclusion and Sanguine in Affection will temper the Control as well. And then, you mentioned Inclusion: Phlegmatic-Melancholy, Melancholy, Choleric-Phlegmatic, so there is apparently some Choleric in there somewhere, and you're just associating it possibly with Inclusion.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #88
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    As I said in the PM, you sound so much like me, and could still be Choleric in Control; just tempered away by the Supine in other areas. The same with Kristiana, for that matter. The Melancholy in Inclusion and Sanguine in Affection will temper the Control as well. And then, you mentioned Inclusion: Phlegmatic-Melancholy, Melancholy, Choleric-Phlegmatic, so there is apparently some Choleric in there somewhere, and you're just associating it possibly with Inclusion.
    Well, here's the thing. I think I acted a lot more NFP/SFJ over much of my life in terms of my fears and expectations in social interaction... but increasingly moving away from it now.

    I have noticed a big swing in the last few years, where I really threw off a lot of my old behaviors and embraced "myself." I allow myself to throw my weight around, I let people react how they want, and I move forward and control my own life and make decisions about it. It's not an unnatural process either, it's something I embrace. My natural mode was far more challenging than I permitted myself in the past because I felt like I had to always be nice, kind, good, and accepting, and not exert control.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #89
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Yes, Supine, but probably higher in the expressed range (more toward the right of the quadrant in the map).
    Thanks Eric. I was reading through the thread, and you mentioned to that Supine has a tendency to lack social skills. Could you elaborate on that a bit? I can't really relate to any lack of social skills, and would actually say that I'm most skilled socially. Thinking...
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  10. #90
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, here's the thing. I think I acted a lot more NFP/SFJ over much of my life in terms of my fears and expectations in social interaction... but increasingly moving away from it now.

    I have noticed a big swing in the last few years, where I really threw off a lot of my old behaviors and embraced "myself." I allow myself to throw my weight around, I let people react how they want, and I move forward and control my own life and make decisions about it. It's not an unnatural process either, it's something I embrace. My natural mode was far more challenging than I permitted myself in the past because I felt like I had to always be nice, kind, good, and accepting, and not exert control.
    So that too sounds like you could really be on the Choleric side in Control, but the circumstances led you to not be able to express your true temperament need. Even though my parents were ISTJ, they were still on the liberal side in many ways, basically rebelling against the old morality of "children should be seen and not heard", and such. (Even though they're supposed to be "Guardians"; the old order they grew up in was totally screwed up, so they tried to start from scratch). So I was allowed to express my Control to some extent.
    APS teaches a distinction between inborn temperament and learned behavior. In this, it even differs from the FIRO-B the questionnaire is taken from, which is supposedly changeable behavior. So the method I'm using now, of picking out the reports, can also reflect learned behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Thanks Eric. I was reading through the thread, and you mentioned to that Supine has a tendency to lack social skills. Could you elaborate on that a bit? I can't really relate to any lack of social skills, and would actually say that I'm most skilled socially. Thinking...
    I don't think I said Supines "lack social skills". I had said that I lacked social graces, because I was expressing to people with a Control temperament rather than Inclusion, which is the social area. Supine lacks the mechanism to express his need to people, even though he wants. This is based on a fear of rejection. Extroverted temperaments (Sanguine, Choleric), have the mechanism (confidence) to express.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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