6 seems very Supine (especially from the videos on one of the Enneagram sites), and that would basically be a reasonable match. 4 seemed like a more moderate Supine or Melancholy; hence I placed it in between those as S-P or M-P. So if you're saying you can be either 4 or 6, that would make perfect sense. (I believe 4 and 6 should be next to each other in the wing system, and they are more similar to each other than 5. 4 seems like it would be between 5 and 6).I typed myself and from people on the Enneagram institute as a E6, could I be? Cause I see a lot of E4traits but not as much as E6 so I assumed I have a four in my tri-fix.
I'm not 100% sure where Affection would fit in the comparison. It would seem to be apart of Interaction Styles, but then a person's Affection can be completely different from Inclusion, which I would say is the closest counterpart to Interaction Style. But again, if you're S-P in Inclusion, that is sort of in between, so there would be no conflict leaning towards BtS (especially since there is no such moderation recognized in the type-based systems), and then the Phlegmatic in Affection then would definitely push you towards the BtS side.I know for the most part that I'm behind the scenes interaction style according to berens I.S, unless I'm confusing the receptivity of Phlegmatic in Affection for being BtS. I aways put it being behind the scenes to not really be bothered where we begin and end in activities *task focus*. I have an outcome focus so the result will always be the same no matter what we do first or last.
That's definite Supine behavior, just like described in the manuals! As for you, I guess you don't have to be "indifferent" to be Phlegmatic. Still wondering how you react. You you use dry humor when she reacts to you like that?Pretty much, I always miss the signals *wants to know she’s valued but she‘s very indirect in my eyes of course* that I’m suppose to be able to recognize when the Supine hasn’t really been very clear. Then I just get so confused I don’t even know how to respond other then to ask if it means she wants help or not?
Cause I’ll ask sometimes and I’ll get a “no it’s okay I got it” thus leaving me in confusion. But other times when I didn’t ask I used to get abit of hostility in response from her which I would find out it was cause I didn’t ask if she wanted help.
That’s my problem if I see someone doing just fine I let them be, she wants to know I care about her enough to ask if she needs help even if she “doesn’t” really need it *this confuses me*. Things have improved between us so that’s great we meet half way now. I don’t really get indifferent, maybe it comes off that way but I’m just confused or feeling like she was getting upset with me for nothing.
You would find it harder to express affection, and have only a moderate need for it. That one is described here:So say if a person who Expresses Supine
but responds as a Phlegmatic how would that go?
Temperament: Supine Phlegmatic in Affection
That sounds right, and if that's your true Affection, you would be low "e", moderate "w" in all three areas!It sounds like it fits me so far for supine phlegmatic.
Expressiveness is basically extroversion, or how oriented we are to the outside world of people. However, some can express to people, but not really want from them. So we would say that they only want according to a particular criteria or goal. Their behavior effectively says that they want interaction with people, but that's ultimately not what they really want, but rather it's their goals. That's why on Ryan's map, it's called "Now You See Him; Now You Don't".I’m curious by what you mean by Responsiveness is what we really want?
These people will tend to be more focused on tasks (and the negative side of their temperament is using people as objects), and thus often speak in a "directive" fashion. So this would be an In Charge or Choleric (In Inclusion, at least). The Sanguine (or GtG) expresses to others just as much, but truly wants the interaction from others, without such criteria.
The Supine wants like the Sanguine, but does not have the mechanism to be able to express. So he will often remain more frustrated, wanting interaction from others, and resenting them for not giving it, just as you describe for your mother, in Affection. The Melancholy does not express, and does not want (except from those meeting a criteria, like the Choleric). Phlegmatics express and want a moderate amount, and the Phlegmatic blends will express or want a moderate amount, depending on which blend it is.
Again, all it means is that you are technically between Supine and Melancholy in the Wanted dimension (and equal to both on the Expressed dimension). You need less than a Supine, but need more than a Melancholy. The need would be equal to that of a Phlegmatic, so yes, you would recognize Phlegmatic more than Melancholy.Would this explain why I feel I am more phlegmatic and melancholy is harder to see? Because my area of affection is Expressed Supine-Responsive phlegmatic which Responsive is what we really want?
Yes, expressed and wanted (responsive) work the same way in all three areas.That makes a lot of sense, less room for confusion probably too with expressed vs. wanted behavior coupled with MBTI really creates precision and clarity which is always awesome.
So Mel-phlegmatic in control
*E*Supine *R* phlegmatic in Affection.
Melancholy-Phlegmatic in inclusion.
How does expressed and responsive work for In control and inclusion?
Do those get used for those two or just for Affection?
Thank you Eric .
Inclusion is where I say it is a more definite match for Berens' Informing and Directing; and Affection probably is also tied in with it.
In Control, I have found Expressed to be the analogue to Keirsey's "cooperative/pragmatic". Cooperatives ("do what's right") will be a bit slower to take initiative action, because they tend to be loyal to the concrete structures or personal ideals they are working under. Pragmatics ("do what works") are naturally quicker to act. SP's (Berens' "Improviser"), obviously; and with the NTs, its their competitiveness and dogged determination.
Wanted Control would seem to correspond to Berens' "structure/motive", which ties together SP with NF, and SJ with NT. SJ/Melancholy in Control trust concrete structures such as the family or institution. They will accept control from those sources, but will resist anyone else. That's basically the "criteria" of the low responsiveness. NT's or Choleric in control trust their abstract structures such as plans or logic (their criteria). They do not want any control over them outside those things. You can see right here where the two will clash, as the Choleric tries to take over with his own abstract plans, and the Melancholy then resists, favoring what's familiar, or what the organization's rules say. Does anyone else recognize a similar clash between NT's and SJ's?
NF's and SP's would be more willing to accept decisions by others, in order to work with them (the definition of "motive"). Supines, Phlegmatics and Supine Phlegmatics want others to make decisions for or at least with them, and part of this is from a need for peace. Sanguines in Control swing between controlling and dependence or narcissism, which would seem to stem from Se's pulling them one way or another.