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  1. #131
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Donna,
    I could see why an STJ might identify with some aspects of Choleric in Control. The Melancholy in Control, while also being independent and not wanting any control over them, also "Must appear competent and in control".

    The Choleric on the other hand "Must have a great deal of control over the lives and behaviors of other people". Is that true for you? Or might it be a more defensive thing of trying to appear in Control?
    Surely I don´t want any control over me, since I control myself pretty well. Still, my control over other people´s behaviour is part of my defense mechanisms.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  2. #132
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    OK. Then would you possibly identify with the Melancholy in Control description at all?

    Choleric in Control is driven to be controlling, and it's not just in defense. It basically corresponds with Keirsey's "pragmatic" dimension. In the original Will Schutz FIRO system this was derived from, the Choleric range was called "Autocrat". In the Leo Ryan version, it was "Mission Impossible".

    Melancholy is Cooperative, and more willing to "follow individuals whom he/she...has respect for...as leaders". So you can see the connection to the SJ "Guardian" need for a "concrete structure". Also, "Demands order, truth, reliability and dependability from himself/herself and others"; "needs facts, research, information". Clearly, SJ, and always the most obviously likely accurate correlation.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #133
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I thought you did this one already. I guess I was thinking about the others.
    Phlegmatic Melancholy is between Melancholy and Choleric. It is ambiverted (moderate expression) and directive (low responsive).

    I know you used to say you were part Choleric, yet you changed it to Phleg-San* which was the perfect match for ISFP.
    Yet now, you're identifying with a directive type again.

    When this happened in the other threads with people, I always used to put it off onto Affection. But now we have your chosen Affection, and Phlegmatic Sanguine is ambiverted and responsive. I don't think that's going to be the source of any apparent Choleric or PM behaviors.
    *(Phlegmatic Sanguine in this case is different from the earlier "Phleg-San". I took that to translate to "Phlegmatic in Inclusion, Sanguine in Control". Here, the spelled out version, it means "express as a Phlegmatic, respond as a Sanguine within the area of Affection").

    So I don't know why you come out so directive. Perhaps just from seeing the general Phlegmatic traits in those profiles. Looking back over the PM description in Inclusion, I see where one may not see the directive traits, but the key terms there are "happier when not approached by people" (Is this true for you?), and "task-oriented". Pure Phlegmatics and blends with higher responsiveness say "people AND task". Another key is "strong minded", though that is something a lot of people might describe themselves as.

    Phlegmatic Supine, it starts out saying "Extrovert..." which may have driven you off, but that means in the responsive dimension (how much interaction you want, not how much you approach others). In the expressive dimension, it too is an ambivert.
    The Phlegmatic "expressive" traits will be similar to PM, it will just have more people-oriented descriptions.
    Otherwise, do you identify with that one at all? Or I should ask what do you identify with in one over the other?

    In your videos, you did not seem like a PM at all. (My brother is a PM, and they're more cynical and 1-ish). You definitely seemed like a higher responsive Inclusion. (light and airy).

    In Control, PM I would think to be more a "structure-focused" SJ or NT. I guess there too, the distinctions get lost in the general Phlegmatic trait descriptions. Again, what do you identify with in that one over PG or GP?

    Otherwise, I would think PM in both Inclusion and Control would be ixTJ. If you take the Phlegmatic part of it by itself, then it might be stretched to some of the Behind the Scenes and/or Idealist types. But it seems like a bit of a longer shot for an ISFP.
    Yeah Phlegmatic Sanguine sounded way more extroverted than I thought it was, that's probably what was throwing me off. Thanks for the clarification, Phleg-San still fits me the best.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  4. #134
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    I had very little experience to draw from when I posted in this topic a few months ago. Now that I've had more experience, I've gone back and tweaked things a bit:

    Inclusion: Phlegmatic-Melancholy (Melancholy-Phlegmatic is close, as well)
    Control: Phlegmatic
    Affection: Supine (with just a pinch of Sanguine-Phlegmatic)
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  5. #135
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Even better fit!

    Black Cat, how did Phlegmatic Supine (Inclusion) sound, (other than the "extroversion" term)?
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #136
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Even better fit!

    Black Cat, how did Phlegmatic Supine (Inclusion) sound, (other than the "extroversion" term)?
    Phlegmatic Supine sounds good for inclusion actually. Except I'm not as reactive to not being recognized as the description portrays (I don't get angry), but I still get disappointed in an interaction if it doesn't go like that. Another thing to consider is that I'm words of affirmation dominant in the love languages, so that probably adds to it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #137
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    OK. So you're probably lower down in the wanted scale in that range, close to a Phlegmatic (like right above and left of center). Either way, it fits.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  8. #138
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Found a full (220 page) book someone did on the system (some people would ask me if there was a book on it): http://www.jacksonsnyder.com/mgi/studies/GCY.pdf
    The title sounds purely theological, but it's about the temperaments.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  9. #139
    Member Daydreaming Swan's Avatar
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    Inclusion: Melancholic-Compulsive
    Control: Melancholy
    Affection: Melancholic-Compulsive
    4w5 so/sp - 5w4 so/sx - 9w1 sp/so
    Fi > Ne > Ni > Fe > Si > Ti > Se > Te
    Melancholic/Phlegmatic/Supine

  10. #140
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I didn't even see this one (now after 8 months; because I hadn't been as active this year, and on old threads, it stops notifying you).

    An INFP coming up so almost purely Melancholy Compulsive? (but then Phlegmatic and Supine in the signature as well).
    I gues if you're very withdrawn, you might not recognize a higher want of people (which is what distinguishes the Supine from the Melancholy).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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