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  1. #11
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Gee.. I wonder which function lines up with each choice.. or which role corresponds with each question..
    I couldn't bring myself to take it for that reason.

    Still, Eric, bravo for defining the functions. Had I the time and inclination, I would try forced-choice questions limning functions that aren't binary (one answer, say, would place significant weight on Se while the other slightly indicated Ni), and therefore more difficult to identify in the questions. Research, determining which behaviors each function is likely to produce, would be required; as would a very long test.

  2. #12
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    I am still wondering the purpose.

  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    I am still wondering the purpose.
    Well, you and others had yours; - wanted to try out mine, and make it as simplified and concise as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I don't know what that means. The "e" choice was the one about efficiency. I want to be more efficient than I am, and the times I am stressed I DO become more efficient, but also more irritable and dismissive of anything outside of what I'm trying to do. All of those "questions" were along those same lines.
    This is the function of extraverted Thinking we're discussing, and from what
    you're saying here, it sounds like it would fit the "aspirational" (inferior) role.
    The inferior is said to be largely negative until it develops in one's midlife. In traditioanl four-process theory, it is considered "the shadow". So it would make sense that it would fill all of those negative 'shadow' roles (according to eight process theory)

    Yeah, again, I don't do those things, so I wouldn't know.
    Well again, what role do Si and Ne play for you?

    Wait, so this isn't really about seeing how different people think? Because now you're telling me what "should be." So there are correct and incorrect answers to this "test"?
    "should be" according to archetype theory. This is what I'm testing here.

    And you still didn't explain what "double binding" means.
    It means putting yourself or someone else in a situation where they are stuck between two bad choices. Like when arguing over perceived facts, I'll try to turn them against the other person so that they all can't all be true. If one is true, he loses, yet if it's false he loses, and it has to be false for the other to be true.

    What do you mean by "the first two are reversed"?
    For an ISFP, the fist should be h (Fi) and the second should be a (Se). That's what defines the type. For ESFP, it is the reverse.

    Again, don't understand the first part. If the second part is you asking me if I'm conflicted on whether I'm P or J, then no, I'm definitely P.
    No, I was addressing other people's choices then. For an INTJ, Ti and Ne are shadows, but just change the J to a P, those functions become the preferred first two. So I asked if he might have J/P uncertainty, and he seems to have affirned that. A lot of INTP's have also been coming up with strong Ni for some reason.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, you and others had yours; - wanted to try out mine, and make it as simplified and concise as possible.
    Could I have my diagnosis now?

  5. #15
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    This is the function of extraverted Thinking we're discussing, and from what
    you're saying here, it sounds like it would fit the "aspirational" (inferior) role.
    The inferior is said to be largely negative until it develops in one's midlife. In traditioanl four-process theory, it is considered "the shadow". So it would make sense that it would fill all of those negative 'shadow' roles (according to eight process theory)
    Okay, I think I understand, thanks.


    Well again, what role do Si and Ne play for you?
    From what I've read about "Si", it sounds as if it's mainly concerned with past memories, and differentiating things in the present based on sense impressions of the past. So, the role it plays for me is mostly giving me lots of detailed stories to tell, and hopefully some learning from my past mistakes in my decisions in the present.

    "Ne" is a little tougher, I think I must use it a lot less, but from what I gather, it tends to be defined by connecting things, or recognizing patterns in some way? Probably this aids me in story telling as well, makes comedy flow better, and probably helps me communicate with people based on recognizing their patterns as ones I've witnessed before. Though some of that kinda sounds like the "Si" stuff too, so I'm not entirely sure.

    "should be" according to archetype theory. This is what I'm testing here.
    Yeah, I definitely disagree with the whole set-in-stone function order thing. I don't think we were designed to be THAT much alike. Which I know sounds kinda funny for anyone on a personality type forum to say, but I think within the basic types there is a lot of freedom and variance, and that leads me to believe that beyond those initial couple of processes that form the basic type, there is a ton of difference between people's internal functions.

    It means putting yourself or someone else in a situation where they are stuck between two bad choices. Like when arguing over perceived facts, I'll try to turn them against the other person so that they all can't all be true. If one is true, he loses, yet if it's false he loses, and it has to be false for the other to be true.
    Okay, well, like I said, I don't ever do that intentionally. And if I do it subconciously, then I'm not aware of it enough to even hazard a guess as to what process I might be using if and when I do this.

    For an ISFP, the fist should be h (Fi) and the second should be a (Se). That's what defines the type. For ESFP, it is the reverse.
    I thought that's what you might mean, and in that case, I think the fault lies in the wording of your questions. #1 asked what process "has longest been my main approach to the world", not which I use most often period. "Se" is the process I use most when dealing with the external world, but "Fi" is the one I have used the most overall. I was answering your question as precisely as I could, perhaps thinking there was a little more nuance to it than there actually was.

    Still, I'm not dissing your test. For whatever you gather from it, if you have fun doing it, then it's all good.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Could I have my diagnosis now?
    I second this. Please elaborate on the results, OP.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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    1. d
    2. c
    3. a
    4. b
    5. e
    6. g
    7. h
    8. f

    I'm really not sure about some of them.

    Diagnosis?

  8. #18
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Yeah, I would like my results.

  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    From what I've read about "Si", it sounds as if it's mainly concerned with past memories, and differentiating things in the present based on sense impressions of the past. So, the role it plays for me is mostly giving me lots of detailed stories to tell, and hopefully some learning from my past mistakes in my decisions in the present.
    Interesting you mention particularly "learning from mistakes". According to Berens, "Critical" (6th place) Si for the ISFP means they often prefer not to focus on the past, but when stressed can become quite critical of past performances and overuse prior experience to inform judgments. Yet at times they can 'magically' tune into past mistakes to improve tactical maneuvers. So would that match how you use it? If you're experienceing the positive side of theCritical, it is called "Discovery", and what you describe seems to fit.
    "Ne" is a little tougher, I think I must use it a lot less, but from what I gather, it tends to be defined by connecting things, or recognizing patterns in some way? Probably this aids me in story telling as well, makes comedy flow better, and probably helps me communicate with people based on recognizing their patterns as ones I've witnessed before. Though some of that kinda sounds like the "Si" stuff too, so I'm not entirely sure.
    Berens describes that ISFP's may be deceived into interpreting situations in an idiosyncratic way. Yet at times they can delight in playing with multiple unlikely scenarios, and may see the humorous side of their strange interpretations. You even mention "comedy", I don't know if you volunteered that, or connecting it to my description of the archetype, but that's the role Ne is "supposed" to play for you.
    I thought that's what you might mean, and in that case, I think the fault lies in the wording of your questions. #1 asked what process "has longest been my main approach to the world", not which I use most often period. "Se" is the process I use most when dealing with the external world, but "Fi" is the one I have used the most overall. I was answering your question as precisely as I could, perhaps thinking there was a little more nuance to it than there actually was.
    OK, Bet! You apparently interpreted "to the world" as "external world" or extraverted.
    I was rushing trying to think of the best way to convey "lead" function or "the first developed, most mature". Lead means it is supposedly your main function, or as someone said in another thread, "it's not driving the car; it IS the car". It's not necessarily how much it is used; that's why as we were discussing in that thread, your auxiliary can actually come out strongest in the CP test, yet you still have the dominant attitude of the next function. Hence, why I believe archetypes (differentiating the roles the functions play) is very helpful in sorting out type. So i'll reword it.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  10. #20
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    OK,
    Jeffster: Fits professed ISFP type. Not very conscious of shadows, and "inferior" fits the roles. Upon describing real life role of Si and Ne, they do seem to fit the ISFP's Critcal/Discovery (6) and Deceiving/Comedic (7).

    01011010 (INTJ)
    Ni-Te-Ne/Ti-Se-Fi-Fe-Si-Se

    Going by first two, would match professed INTJ, and strong Ti/Ne in perceived "relief" position would also match J/P ambiguity (could be misinterpreted lead/supporting?).
    Se as both Aspirational (which is in place) and destructive? Perhaps just realizing both the positive and negative aspects of the Aspirational, which to most people totally unconscious of the "shadow" functions, seems to be the one that represents "the [entire] shadow" and the most negative part of our sconsciousness, as was mentioned.

    Athenian200 (InfJ)
    Ni-Ti-Ne-Fe-Fi-Si-Se-Te

    Several "NiTi" 's in the community, and they usually end up going with INFJ, the professed type here. However, many INTP's have high Ni for some reason. With Ti-Ne next (perceived as supporting and relief, and up a step from 01011010; and above Fe), it looks like one of those INTP's, but with a very out of place Ni shot up to be stronger than everything else, and appear to be the lead. Most likely not ISTP (the other TiNi type) because of perceived "Deceiving" Se, which is actually the INTP's archetype for that function. Fe is also right in place for the INTP's "aspirational".
    Really should reconsider!

    I think some sort of further more in depth, and perhaps professional study might need to be done to sort out all this NiTi stuff. Are people really understanding Ni? I would think it's the hardest to understand. Perhaps a sort of Forer effect with people scoring "exactly me" on questions like "being attracted to the symbolic", and others that are perhaps mistaken for Ne? Perhaps, since it's the INTP's "Critical" or "grumpy old man" role, and we do use it a lot, but mostly negatively (in our stereotypical cynicism), and hence it gets scored highly? (Just using my "supporting" Ne here to explore the possibilities! It's true that everytime I have taken the CP test, and having understood Ni more than the last time, I tend to inch up some of the responses).

    greed
    (ENtj)

    Te-Ni-Se-Fi-Ti-Si-Fe-Ne

    Fits nearly perfectly, except for last three (which would be very deep in the unconsciousness anyway), so great match!

    lemons (INTJ)

    Ni-Te-Ne-Se-Fi-Fe-Ti-Si

    My function order of use is accordingly:
    Ni > Te = Ne > Ti = Fi > Se > Si > Fe
    I was wondering if these just paralleled people's CP results, but while this starts out similarly, we see some differences. Either way, first two match professed type. In this test, Aspirational and "Destructive" (8th) in place. Very E heavy on top, other introverted functions and Fe perceived very lowly, so INTJ is the mostl likely.

    TheChosenOne (ISTP)

    Te-Ti-Se-Ni-Si-Fi-Fe-Ne

    Te perceived as lead function, or function used most "to the world"? Perhaps might be misinterpretation of Opposing/Backup. It seems next three (Ti and irrational arm) are pushed back in consecutive order. Ni perceived as Aspirational can indicate either that it is ego-compatible. In any case, this would at least seem to rule out the ISTJ you were considering IIRC. It was only this strongly perceived Te that gave that impression, but Si perceived as oppositional strongly suggests against it being the lead.

    Anentropic IxTx (INTP)

    Ni-Ne-Se-Si-Te-Fe-Fi-Ti

    Uh Oh; this don't look good! Professed "hero" Ti perceived as "destructive"? All perceived ego compatible (first four) as perception functions, and all judgment perceptions ar shadows:horor: Can't be!
    :17026: You need to try that again! Untypable!!
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    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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