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Fudjack/Dinkelaker Functional Preferences Instrument

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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What a great name for a test. Was this guy the creator?

images
I giggle a bit every time I look at the title of this thread. :D
 

Mal12345

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N - 13
S - 3
F - 5
T - 16

This one has Dominant T instead of the expected Dominant N. And it is a non-closure T.

Edit- this needs a little more explanation. King-of-despair reported an ennea-type of entp, an Ne Dominant. But with the T dominant (according to his score), his Dominant is the Te instead of the Ne.

Whether the Auxiliary is Ni or Ne would require a different kind of test.
 

INTP

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bla bla bla

just out of curiosity. how good understanding do you have about analytical psychology in general? how about jungs typology(not mbti or others that originate from it)? and where did you learn from jungs typology, mbti or others that originate from jungs work? and im not asking for how long have you known about it, because that doesent mean much when it comes to amount of quality of your information, but ofc you could mention that too
 

Mal12345

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bla bla bla...just out of curiosity. how good understanding do you have about analytical psychology in general? how about jungs typology bla bla bla

Rarely is anything "just out of curiosity." But I read from front cover to back a little book called Psychological Types, placing special emphasis on the chapter, "General Description of the Types."
 

Mal12345

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intuiting =17
sensing =5
feeling =6
thinking =9

This score corresponds to any one of four types in the DF33 system -
N-T-F-S = iNtj, iNtp, eNtp, eNtj

The capital N means it is the dominant function, even though the MBTI claims that the ENTJ, for example, has a dominant closure-Te.
 

Mal12345

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http://cognitivequiz.com/quiz.html
Your Cognitive Functions:
Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||||||| 8.09
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||||||||||||| 7.69
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||||||||| 7.45
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||| 7.38
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||| 2.71
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||| 2.39
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||| 1.93
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.29

This test types me as Ni-Ti-Fe-Ne. What would the MBTI have to say about this? Nothing, because it cannot be used to determine type by this pattern of scores. It is limited to determining a function preference on the basis of a simple formula that has no empirical foundation. So if one were to score INTP on the MBTI scales, then it declares the Ti to be dominant as if it were a matter of fact, just as it declares the Te in ESTJ to be the dominant as if it were a law of nature. But it is only true by definition, which is another way of saying it is true because somebody (Myers and Briggs) arbitrarily declared it to be true by definition, like a mathematical postulate. They chose not to take the scientific route of testing their hypothesis about finding dominant and auxiliary functions, or perhaps they did not even think in those terms.

That, to me, sounds like one of those quickie tests invented by someone working for Cosmopolitan magazine.

Edit - in a nutshell, NiTi cannot be typed according to the MBTI which, when deconstructed, requires the pattern XeXi or XiXe to determine type.
 

lunalum

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What kind of empirical foundation are you looking for in a personality type indicator? What is the problem with the orientation of the lead function matching that of one's overall introversion/extraversion preference?

That quiz didn't even give a type, just a ranking of functions.... this quiz could also use a lot of work, particularly with the Ni scoring.

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.92
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||||||||||| 10.38
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.95
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||||||| 5.39
Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||| 4.93
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||| 3.98
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||||||| 3.71
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||| 3

In my case there is more of a clear type pattern, but just because these tests give you results that don't match up to a MBTI type, that doesn't mean that MBTI needs to be thrown away entirely. It means that the online quizzes are not too great anyway and you can figure out your type through other means. But if you have already read Psychological Types I think you already understand this... so I'm not quite sure which direction you are going with this.
 

Mal12345

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What kind of empirical foundation are you looking for in a personality type indicator? What is the problem with the orientation of the lead function matching that of one's overall introversion/extraversion preference?

The real question is: how do you even know it's true? How do you know, without some kind of empirical foundation - meaning, without some verification in reality, and not just some possibly fictitious but definitely made up idea in someone's head (Myers and Briggs)? Because that's the only basis for the conclusion that the dominant function follows I/E and J/P: back around 1940 AD, someone just pulled the whole idea out of a hat. Does that mean it's false? Not necessarily. But it doesn't mean it's true either; and until the idea can be verified in reality by testing it against other hypotheses, it stands as arbitrary hypothesis.

And there are other possible hypotheses. The test you just took shows one of them. It reveals your dominant function without using any arbitrary MBTI formula. And in your case, the Ti also matches for your type. But my result did not precisely match up with INTP.

That quiz didn't even give a type, just a ranking of functions.... this quiz could also use a lot of work, particularly with the Ni scoring.

The standard MBTI test itself could use a lot of work. Yet it stands, not only the test of time, but the test of public faith. And it gives uncomplicated, predictable results which most people like. Maybe it's not true, but it is generally pleasing, like a sugar-pill placebo.

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.92
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||||||||||| 10.38
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.95
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||||||| 5.39
Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||| 4.93
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||| 3.98
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||||||| 3.71
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||| 3

In my case there is more of a clear type pattern, but just because these tests give you results that don't match up to a MBTI type, that doesn't mean that MBTI needs to be thrown away entirely. It means that the online quizzes are not too great anyway and you can figure out your type through other means. But if you have already read Psychological Types I think you already understand this... so I'm not quite sure which direction you are going with this.

The direction - away from infectious dogma that causes some people to fret for years over their type, an issue that otherwise is of very little consequence. What has real consequence? Perhaps some actual introspection, starting with knowing what I feel and why I feel it, instead of hiding behind a general label/description that also covers 375,000,000 other people.

If I were to say that my type is an introvert, what is that a type of? Is it a type of behavior, a type of cognition, or a type of attitude? And if N is my dominant function, what is it a function of? With a little searching, you will find that the answers to these questions reduce to dead ends.

Psychological Types was a chore to read at times, a bit dated, and the type descriptions were fascinating but sometimes vague. They depended upon how well Jung himself understood the types, particularly some of the more mysterious ones which he described as feeling-states that Jung may never have experienced directly. And he says nothing whatsoever about dominant functions being determined by I/E and J/P (closure/non-closure). That is a Myers-Briggs fiction, not a Jungian one.

Anyway, I found out what an over-concern with typology in general was over 20 years ago: a distraction from doing my personal growth work. Being overly concerned with determining one's type can lead to an endless empty black hole.
 

Mal12345

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I think I've done this one before, but if that's the case, then here it is again:

NFTS

N=19
F=9
T=7
S=2


Yup.

Very accurate. :yes:

Some people say accurate, some say wildly inaccurate (with varying degrees of shock or dismay).

What's happening here is the FD33 is being judged by the standard of an older, more widely-accepted theory which has never been proven.
 

INTP

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Rarely is anything "just out of curiosity." But I read from front cover to back a little book called Psychological Types, placing special emphasis on the chapter, "General Description of the Types."

i was just wondering because you make this sort of rookie mistakes all the time:

If I was by myself, I was an introvert. If I was with my friends, I was an extravert.

kinda seems that you didnt understand the book very well. its one of the basics that you are an introvert, if you have an introverted dom function. dom function remains the same, and introvert extraverting doesent make the introvert an extravert. so if you are an introverted thinking dom, you were introvert even if you were with your friends and even tho you were extraverting.

and because you are a new member and make rookie mistakes, its kinda hard to take you very seriously when you claim to know certain things.

so i was just asking because i was curious if you have read at least some things related to typology other than just the basics.

whats your opinion on the fact that there is just dom, aux and inferior functions. according to jung the inferior function is the opposite of dom function, for INTP that would be Fe, but how about Si INTP? what function is Si or is it just nonexistent in INTPs according to jung?

ps. the questions are a test for you whether you can be taken seriously.
 

slowriot

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Mommy, Im a real human being now!!!
 

Mal12345

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i was just wondering because you make this sort of rookie mistakes all the time:



kinda seems that you didnt understand the book very well. its one of the basics that you are an introvert, if you have an introverted dom function. dom function remains the same, and introvert extraverting doesent make the introvert an extravert. so if you are an introverted thinking dom, you were introvert even if you were with your friends and even tho you were extraverting.

and because you are a new member and make rookie mistakes, its kinda hard to take you very seriously when you claim to know certain things.

so i was just asking because i was curious if you have read at least some things related to typology other than just the basics.

whats your opinion on the fact that there is just dom, aux and inferior functions. according to jung the inferior function is the opposite of dom function, for INTP that would be Fe, but how about Si INTP? what function is Si or is it just nonexistent in INTPs according to jung?

ps. the questions are a test for you whether you can be taken seriously.

The fact is, I don't go by the book because books cannot plumb the depths of human nature. So I'm quite all right with it if you don't take me seriously, and I don't take it personally. And it's better than being a tool of someone else's arbitrary theories or just plain guesses disguised as fact. :)

But yes, I wasted a lot of time reading books on typology. I think my inferior Si function motivated that quest.
 

Mal12345

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So you're an INTP with a dominant N function, at least at the time you took the test. :shock:
 

INTP

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The fact is, I don't go by the book because books cannot plumb the depths of human nature.

oh but thats exactly why you need to learn other stuff than just type/function descriptions. shadow as an example is a big(and normal) part of human nature in analytical psychology, it also has alot to do with the functions, but its not mentioned in pretty much at all in the book 'psychological types'. or was it mentioned at all? other big thing is the transcendent function http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/t/#transcendentFunction http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/t/#tertium http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/o/#opposites

mbti and stuff like test/theory in op is just a scratch on the surface of analytical psychology, and if you just scratch the surface, you wont understand it in depth. and in order to make a working model from something, you need to understand it in depth, not just look at it in the surface and pick the things you understand(or think you understand), leave the stuff out that you dont understand and make conclusions about them.

there are alot of good jungian analysts who have contributed to this new stuff derived from it, but the problem of simplifying too complex things still remains. not to mention how off people can go if they just read these simplified things and form conclusions from them, this stuff at op seems like a perfect example of that..
 

Mal12345

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oh but thats exactly why you need to learn other stuff than just type/function descriptions. shadow as an example is a big(and normal) part of human nature in analytical psychology, it also has alot to do with the functions, but its not mentioned in pretty much at all in the book 'psychological types'.

mbti and stuff like test/theory in op is just a scratch on the surface of analytical psychology, and if you just scratch the surface, you wont understand it in depth. and in order to make a working model from something, you need to understand it in depth, not just look at it in the surface and pick the things you understand(or think you understand), leave the stuff out that you dont understand and make conclusions about them.

there are alot of good jungian analysts who have contributed to this new stuff derived from it, but the problem of simplifying too complex things still remains. not to mention how off people can go if they just read these simplified things and form conclusions from them, this stuff at op seems like a perfect example of that..

That stuff [at op] is only trying to prove a little bit. But you see, that's the bit that matters, along with its empirical method which is wanting in the MBTI. And it alone says nothing about Fudjack's depth of penetration into this subject. But considering his proof of the MBTI's circular question-begging, I would say that he has traced it back to its source and uprooted the entire thing. And for me that points to a respectable genius who is no mere dilettante.

I guess from that you could say I am more the "depth-of-knowledge" rather than "breadth of knowledge" type. I am interested in gathering more knowledge if I am certain the foundation is secure. The MBTI's foundation is not secure, it rests on very shaky grounds.

But before I knew this, I thirsted for and read all the books on the subject that were available at the time. Then I quit because I began to realize that, on more than one level, the entire quest is fruitless. And at the time it had a detrimental effect on my personal growth. It distracted me from what was really important.

By the way, I am disappointed you did not call me on the Si inferior function comment at the end of my post. Maybe you didn't read the whole thing.

Edit - just a thought: I wonder if Myers and Briggs really intended people to take them so seriously, or to take their system so far?
 
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