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  1. #251
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    What kind of empirical foundation are you looking for in a personality type indicator? What is the problem with the orientation of the lead function matching that of one's overall introversion/extraversion preference?
    The real question is: how do you even know it's true? How do you know, without some kind of empirical foundation - meaning, without some verification in reality, and not just some possibly fictitious but definitely made up idea in someone's head (Myers and Briggs)? Because that's the only basis for the conclusion that the dominant function follows I/E and J/P: back around 1940 AD, someone just pulled the whole idea out of a hat. Does that mean it's false? Not necessarily. But it doesn't mean it's true either; and until the idea can be verified in reality by testing it against other hypotheses, it stands as arbitrary hypothesis.

    And there are other possible hypotheses. The test you just took shows one of them. It reveals your dominant function without using any arbitrary MBTI formula. And in your case, the Ti also matches for your type. But my result did not precisely match up with INTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    That quiz didn't even give a type, just a ranking of functions.... this quiz could also use a lot of work, particularly with the Ni scoring.
    The standard MBTI test itself could use a lot of work. Yet it stands, not only the test of time, but the test of public faith. And it gives uncomplicated, predictable results which most people like. Maybe it's not true, but it is generally pleasing, like a sugar-pill placebo.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.92
    Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||||||||||| 10.38
    Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.95
    Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||||||| 5.39
    Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||| 4.93
    Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||| 3.98
    Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||||||| 3.71
    Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||| 3

    In my case there is more of a clear type pattern, but just because these tests give you results that don't match up to a MBTI type, that doesn't mean that MBTI needs to be thrown away entirely. It means that the online quizzes are not too great anyway and you can figure out your type through other means. But if you have already read Psychological Types I think you already understand this... so I'm not quite sure which direction you are going with this.
    The direction - away from infectious dogma that causes some people to fret for years over their type, an issue that otherwise is of very little consequence. What has real consequence? Perhaps some actual introspection, starting with knowing what I feel and why I feel it, instead of hiding behind a general label/description that also covers 375,000,000 other people.

    If I were to say that my type is an introvert, what is that a type of? Is it a type of behavior, a type of cognition, or a type of attitude? And if N is my dominant function, what is it a function of? With a little searching, you will find that the answers to these questions reduce to dead ends.

    Psychological Types was a chore to read at times, a bit dated, and the type descriptions were fascinating but sometimes vague. They depended upon how well Jung himself understood the types, particularly some of the more mysterious ones which he described as feeling-states that Jung may never have experienced directly. And he says nothing whatsoever about dominant functions being determined by I/E and J/P (closure/non-closure). That is a Myers-Briggs fiction, not a Jungian one.

    Anyway, I found out what an over-concern with typology in general was over 20 years ago: a distraction from doing my personal growth work. Being overly concerned with determining one's type can lead to an endless empty black hole.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #252
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I think I've done this one before, but if that's the case, then here it is again:

    NFTS

    N=19
    F=9
    T=7
    S=2


    Yup.

    Very accurate.
    Some people say accurate, some say wildly inaccurate (with varying degrees of shock or dismay).

    What's happening here is the FD33 is being judged by the standard of an older, more widely-accepted theory which has never been proven.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #253
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Rarely is anything "just out of curiosity." But I read from front cover to back a little book called Psychological Types, placing special emphasis on the chapter, "General Description of the Types."
    i was just wondering because you make this sort of rookie mistakes all the time:

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    If I was by myself, I was an introvert. If I was with my friends, I was an extravert.
    kinda seems that you didnt understand the book very well. its one of the basics that you are an introvert, if you have an introverted dom function. dom function remains the same, and introvert extraverting doesent make the introvert an extravert. so if you are an introverted thinking dom, you were introvert even if you were with your friends and even tho you were extraverting.

    and because you are a new member and make rookie mistakes, its kinda hard to take you very seriously when you claim to know certain things.

    so i was just asking because i was curious if you have read at least some things related to typology other than just the basics.

    whats your opinion on the fact that there is just dom, aux and inferior functions. according to jung the inferior function is the opposite of dom function, for INTP that would be Fe, but how about Si INTP? what function is Si or is it just nonexistent in INTPs according to jung?

    ps. the questions are a test for you whether you can be taken seriously.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #254
    He who laughs
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    intuiting =13
    sensing =7
    feeling =6
    thinking =11

    Mommy, Im a real human being now!!!

  5. #255
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i was just wondering because you make this sort of rookie mistakes all the time:



    kinda seems that you didnt understand the book very well. its one of the basics that you are an introvert, if you have an introverted dom function. dom function remains the same, and introvert extraverting doesent make the introvert an extravert. so if you are an introverted thinking dom, you were introvert even if you were with your friends and even tho you were extraverting.

    and because you are a new member and make rookie mistakes, its kinda hard to take you very seriously when you claim to know certain things.

    so i was just asking because i was curious if you have read at least some things related to typology other than just the basics.

    whats your opinion on the fact that there is just dom, aux and inferior functions. according to jung the inferior function is the opposite of dom function, for INTP that would be Fe, but how about Si INTP? what function is Si or is it just nonexistent in INTPs according to jung?

    ps. the questions are a test for you whether you can be taken seriously.
    The fact is, I don't go by the book because books cannot plumb the depths of human nature. So I'm quite all right with it if you don't take me seriously, and I don't take it personally. And it's better than being a tool of someone else's arbitrary theories or just plain guesses disguised as fact.

    But yes, I wasted a lot of time reading books on typology. I think my inferior Si function motivated that quest.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #256
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    intuiting =13
    sensing =7
    feeling =6
    thinking =11

    Mommy, Im a real human being now!!!
    So you're an INTP with a dominant N function, at least at the time you took the test.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    So you're an INTP with a dominant N function, at least at the time you took the test.
    Congrats you win a cake!

  8. #258
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Congrats you win a cake!
    What kind?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #259
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The fact is, I don't go by the book because books cannot plumb the depths of human nature.
    oh but thats exactly why you need to learn other stuff than just type/function descriptions. shadow as an example is a big(and normal) part of human nature in analytical psychology, it also has alot to do with the functions, but its not mentioned in pretty much at all in the book 'psychological types'. or was it mentioned at all? other big thing is the transcendent function http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/t/...endentFunction http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/t/#tertium http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/o/#opposites

    mbti and stuff like test/theory in op is just a scratch on the surface of analytical psychology, and if you just scratch the surface, you wont understand it in depth. and in order to make a working model from something, you need to understand it in depth, not just look at it in the surface and pick the things you understand(or think you understand), leave the stuff out that you dont understand and make conclusions about them.

    there are alot of good jungian analysts who have contributed to this new stuff derived from it, but the problem of simplifying too complex things still remains. not to mention how off people can go if they just read these simplified things and form conclusions from them, this stuff at op seems like a perfect example of that..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  10. #260
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    oh but thats exactly why you need to learn other stuff than just type/function descriptions. shadow as an example is a big(and normal) part of human nature in analytical psychology, it also has alot to do with the functions, but its not mentioned in pretty much at all in the book 'psychological types'.

    mbti and stuff like test/theory in op is just a scratch on the surface of analytical psychology, and if you just scratch the surface, you wont understand it in depth. and in order to make a working model from something, you need to understand it in depth, not just look at it in the surface and pick the things you understand(or think you understand), leave the stuff out that you dont understand and make conclusions about them.

    there are alot of good jungian analysts who have contributed to this new stuff derived from it, but the problem of simplifying too complex things still remains. not to mention how off people can go if they just read these simplified things and form conclusions from them, this stuff at op seems like a perfect example of that..
    That stuff [at op] is only trying to prove a little bit. But you see, that's the bit that matters, along with its empirical method which is wanting in the MBTI. And it alone says nothing about Fudjack's depth of penetration into this subject. But considering his proof of the MBTI's circular question-begging, I would say that he has traced it back to its source and uprooted the entire thing. And for me that points to a respectable genius who is no mere dilettante.

    I guess from that you could say I am more the "depth-of-knowledge" rather than "breadth of knowledge" type. I am interested in gathering more knowledge if I am certain the foundation is secure. The MBTI's foundation is not secure, it rests on very shaky grounds.

    But before I knew this, I thirsted for and read all the books on the subject that were available at the time. Then I quit because I began to realize that, on more than one level, the entire quest is fruitless. And at the time it had a detrimental effect on my personal growth. It distracted me from what was really important.

    By the way, I am disappointed you did not call me on the Si inferior function comment at the end of my post. Maybe you didn't read the whole thing.

    Edit - just a thought: I wonder if Myers and Briggs really intended people to take them so seriously, or to take their system so far?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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