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  1. #311
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    Oh, I know where you're coming from, and if you have an idea to refine the question further, mention it. But if I give you advice beforehand, it ruins the test experimentation, right? It's sure not set in stone yet, I've hardly tested anyone, relatively speaking.

  2. #312
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Oh, I know where you're coming from, and if you have an idea to refine the question further, mention it. But if I give you advice beforehand, it ruins the test experimentation, right? It's sure not set in stone yet, I've hardly tested anyone, relatively speaking.
    Hmmm, if this question is meant to distinguish J/P, maybe (and this is really a fairly facile suggestion at this point) something like this:

    Are you irritated by quick and frequent changes in the rules?
    Do environments with unchanging rules make you uncomfortable?

    Just a suggestion. I know it's not related to the original content of your question, but I think it works similarly and might be less ambiguous (to me at least). I also don't see this type of question as often in the regular tests.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #313
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Okay, I reworded 2 and 3, let me know how this looks. Hopefully I'll hear from others as well, like Eileen.

    (Question 3B would just be a and d, of course)

    a. I can tell you whether things are ethically wrong or right.
    b. I easily pick up on nuance and subtletly, and explore hypothetical possibilities.
    c. I am keenly aware of details, and of my physical environment.
    d. I can tell you whether things are true or false, based on my acquired knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    oh, I thought you were just merging the two together .. grrrr. i'd still pick d. I want to say i'd compromise, but the "based on instinct" thing would almost need to be in there for me.. I think A would still mean that I thought about it. I don't think about ethics and values that much, let alone "tell you" about them. I wonder if this is an Fi thing.. I don't know.


    You know, actually, I think that the D option is still really the problem here.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  4. #314
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I modified the test so Eileen would probably pick a now (so she said), and I modified it based on cascademn's advice too.
    Hmm... well, I guess if you want to check whether the model can work with real types, that's a good way to progress. Glad to see you're doing that.
    Oh, and I should mention again that I think function-knowledgeable INxJs have an inclination to be biased due to their notions of what their dominant functions are. This may only be true for some.
    Don't you think you're being a little biased against INJs? I'm beginning to get that impression, honestly.

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Don't you think you're being a little biased against INJs? I'm beginning to get that impression, honestly.
    It's complicated. For me to rule out knowledge bias, which I think has more sticking power in INJs than INPs, I'll have to test people who've never heard of functions. I just don't know for sure what the story is right now.

    I'm ill at the moment, and I'm going to take some time off from working on this test, like a day or two. I'll read whatever's said at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    You know, actually, I think that the D option is still really the problem here.
    I planned to work on d, but didn't you choose b previously?

  6. #316
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's complicated. For me to rule out knowledge bias, which I think has more sticking power in INJs than INPs, I'll have to test people who've never heard of functions. I just don't know for sure what the story is right now.
    Okay, I guess that's fair enough. It's going to be hard to find such people around here, though.
    I'm ill at the moment, and I'm going to take some time off from working on this test, like a day or two. I'll read whatever's said at some point.
    Oh, sorry to hear that. Try and get well, okay?

  7. #317
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's complicated. For me to rule out knowledge bias, which I think has more sticking power in INJs than INPs, I'll have to test people who've never heard of functions. I just don't know for sure what the story is right now.

    I'm ill at the moment, and I'm going to take some time off from working on this test, like a day or two. I'll read whatever's said at some point.


    I planned to work on d, but didn't you choose b previously?
    Well, I don't mean for me; we solved it for me to my satisfaction. I think D might be the problem for shortnsweet.

    But actually, I also chose D in my first run for question 3. Facts are easy and obvious; morals are less so. I may think ethics and morals MATTER more than easy, obvious facts... but facts are definitely easier for me.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #318
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I still say you're simplifying TJ so much that you're turning it into its least important factor.

    You're changing it from something complex into a simple matching game. If this were true, we wouldn't have such violent arguments between TJ types all the time. We'd have drones, which, I'm guessing, is all you see in us.

    I call bias.


    "I concern myself with separating fact from opinion and other obfuscation" for example, would be much better.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #319
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    1. B
    2. C
    3. C
    4. B
    5. B
    6. B
    7. A
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  10. #320
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Oh, and I should mention again that I think function-knowledgeable INxJs have an inclination to be biased due to their notions of what their dominant functions are. This may only be true for some.
    Personally, inasmuch as I buy any of the typology stuff (I think it's a parlor game that will probably never be substantiated with real neuroscience), I think socionics is closest. And I like your idea about leading functions and stuff. But I know what I do at a gut level versus a conscious level, and judging right vs. wrong is not what I do very consciously, not what I do with my gut. Noticing body language and connotation and those sorts of things is what I do nearly unconsciously.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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