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  1. #371
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Both of you, please leave the references to not being on meds out of the discussion. If you're pissed off at one another, just tell each other why and leave the little barbs out.

    ...Game on!

  2. #372
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Give it a miss. Do yourself a favour.

  3. #373
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Both of you, please leave the references to not being on meds out of the discussion. If you're pissed off at one another, just tell each other why and leave the little barbs out.

    ...Game on!
    Edahn. I was waiting for this.

    I never comment on anyone's need for medication unless they have already disclosed this publicly. Then I would only do it in a place where I knew everyone else already had the information. This complies with respect for others and with the national privacy acts protecting people who have an illness.

    Those who offer this information? If it should be used as an excuse for socially difficult behavior? A reminder to follow the protocol for health is not out of line and is not harmful, nor is it intended to be.

    Thought and mood disorders aren't something to be used as an excuse for disruptive behavior. And neither are they a reason to berate someone.

    The only shame in mental illness is when a person knows how to deal with it and doesn't.

    I have several friends who take medication and they appreciate an occasional reminder Have even requested that they receive one when they appear off-balance. Because, as they have said, they are the last to notice when they need to take it.

    There was no mean-spirited intention in my referenceing the medication. It may be the cause of the confusion.

    I'll refrain from any further mention of it.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #374
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The last explanation was unnecessary as well.

    If you're really concerned about someone's meds, please take it up in PM.
    Otherwise knock it off.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #375
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Oh I get it!

    Zergling is now Jack's Martyr!
    The "Martyr's Martyr"!

    Shut up.
    Ah well fuck it. We're about to add another to the list, but no more after that. Come on guys, you can do better than this.


    Oh, and to those of you who are (I'm not sure who is, or even how many), stop pretending it's about principles.
    It's not.

    You wanna talk about transparency...

    Anyone ever heard of "first blood"?
    No, not the movie.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #376
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Concerning Jack and Zergling, I'm not sure what more mods could do to be transparent. Everyone knows why Jack was banned for 6 months, and I don't think they should have been expected to post that PM Zergling made to everyone. It looks like they alluded to it sufficiently.

    Another thing that is lame is once a member leaves, all the people who had problems with that member come out of the woodwork and diss them. But while the poster was around, they were mostly non confrontational. I think insults make the world go round, but only if the other person can hear it.

    *tries to pave the way for a graceful bluemonday return*
    Thanks. Yes, it's interesting! It's actually worth "leaving" just to see that stuff come out. (See my sig.)
    Could they have been more transparent? Yes, of course. They could have come clean about the PM/Zergling debacle. And I would like to have known the full reasons for Nihilen's and Jack's banning. But I'm all for bringing this stuff out into the open. Most ppl probably aren't.
    *bets the air is blue in the modbox around about now*
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    bluemonday, you have never received any infractions. You have received one warning for the thing you mentioned above.
    OK, thanks for the clarification, Ivy.
    All I know is I have an infractions tab with an entry on it. I only mentioned it as an example, not because it bothers me, or I would have made an issue of it already. And I really don't mind who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I must be honest with you, blue: you have always been one of my favorite members. You've consistently offered a unique panorama of biting wit alongside an indelible humanity that is a rare find - offline or on.

    To your specific complaint on the apparent lack of neutrality (for the sake of clarity, I'll presume you meant in a non-academic/observer bias fashion), I assure you that we work to stamp out emotive analysis whenever possible -- sometimes even resorting to disengaging ourselves from active administrative oversight when we become too personally involved in a discussion.

    With that thought in mind, the decision to temporarily suspend Flak was convened with painstaking precision. We always offer individual analysis before corroborating our group perspective into a final behavior (many times absorbing days/weeks of collective investigation as a means to actively reduce individual bias that would otherwise be an unavoidable artifact of administrative adjudication.

    Jack's decision to behave poorly was a strategic act of self-mutilation. To offer it in any other way would be to insult the clarity of his intelligence.

    I hope you'll reconsider your decision.
    Thanks, Night. You are really too generous. I think Ivy's description of me as "curmudgeonly" is closer to the truth.

    Everyone is getting hung up on Jack. Jack is a catalyst, not a cause. I have said very little about his banning. I think the 'Bring back Jack' threads are a rather infantile reaction - but it does fittingly illustrate the balance of power in the 'teacher/child' paradigm.

    Frankly, I don't know if JF/Nihilen deserved to be banned or not, because I don't have all the facts. I only know their contributions will be missed.

    There are several members of this forum that I find deeply offensive/annoying on a personal level. I don't complain about them or report posts because that isn't my style - it doesn't even occur to me. I just ignore them. It's really quite simple. I don't know why others can't adopt a similar approach.

    I don't want to get drawn into making this about one member, when it isn't, but I will say what disturbed me about the JF incident:
    I think the ugliness on display in *that* thread was uncharacteristic - I have had more than my fair share of heated arguments with Jack and he has never been abusive in my experience. I think he lashed out because a) he was intoxicated and b) he was mocked after revealing a vulnerability seldom expressed.
    Which is the greater crime - lashing out in the heat of the moment, or calculatedly trying to destroy another's peace of mind /reputation? I guess it comes down to whether you'd rather have an F.U. to your face or a knife in your back. I know which I'd prefer.

    I don't understand why it wasn't possible to suspend his account immediately until he had cooled off/sobered up, rather than giving him enough rope to hang himself - unless that was the intended outcome, of course.

    Ultimately, I believe Jack to be a person of integrity, who made a mistake...or several.

    I have a real problem with banning people because I have witnessed the effects of 'shunning' people in other situations and it disturbs me. Let's say Jack really had been depressed and out of it that night, how might he have reacted?
    I worry about the handling of vulnerable people - the stuff that is tolerated as well as the stuff that isn't. It makes me uncomfortable to associate myself with that kind of vibe. I guess that's really what this is all about, for me. And as AJ has said, all the post-mortem disparagement is just disgusting. I know you guys aren't professionals, but still, I think things can be improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Show me where I said that, and I will show where I told you why I said that.

    What are you talking about.

    Drop the hyperbole and give me facts. When and where did I do that?

    Um. . . here:

    . . . and here:
    Technically, "about ready" and "disappearing" don't constitute "leaving". I'm a P! Anyway, I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. The tone of this and your other posts to me demonstrate your obvious antipathy. You're one of the people that I rub the wrong way. I get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze
    If you really doubt that the banned (and the damned) are getting their 2 warnings as per the rules, the only way to solve that is to make every *warning* public. Not just the bannings. If you want to suggest that, then we can have an Official Vote of MBTI.
    I don't doubt it. Good idea!
    The thing is, people who get warnings usually don't want to air their public laundry.
    Perhaps it would be a more effective deterrent?
    If you want 'transparency' just use the 'search' function. I don't think I've ever questioned a banning because I know from reading their own words that they had warnings and ban-worthy posts.
    I've done that. I must be more tolerant than most because I don't always understand the 'rules' that have been applied. It's pretty subjective, IMO.
    Cycles of Tension and Violence, Scapegoating
    I totally disagree about scapegoating and I take exception to these ideas because it implies this forum and the members are engaging in unhealthy/unfair/dysfunctional behavior. I am also puzzled by a juxtaposition of cycles of escalating tension/violence - a common theory of domestic violence - to this forum. I don't think it fits at all.
    I'm sure I don't know where that came from.

    If you look at the history of bannings, it's pretty clear cut and there have only been maybe 2 controversial bannings.
    Yeah. It's not just about bannings tho....

    I don't want to make a huge deal of this - I'm boring myself now. Just wanted to say my piece. If I'm the only one who feels this way then I should just STFU and go elsewhere as many have suggested. The fact is I know I'm not - it's just other people aren't necessarily prepared to go public, and probably even less so now after witnessing the backlash against me. I think any atmosphere that stifles debate is an unhealthy one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    ???
    F**K! It was a JOKE!!! Do you think I'd really give you that kind of amo? REALLY? I'll be generous and suggest that you misunderstood everything in my post.
    You know what I find interesting? (And I'll explain this so that there can be no misunderstanding.) The whole thing where someone (that would be YOU) wrongs another person (that would be ME) and then ends up despising them and wronging them further. What is that called? I saw a beautiful example of it in The Kite Runner, recently. Cognitive dissonance at work again, I guess? It's one of the more despicable parts of human nature. I tried making light of your nastiness, I tried honestly telling you how I felt in PM after you persisted in insulting me. Neither approach has worked.
    No need to reply. Just put me on your ignore list - you are now on mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #377
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    But I'm all for bringing this stuff out into the open. Most ppl probably aren't.
    *bets the air is blue in the modbox around about now*
    The fact is I know I'm not - it's just other people aren't necessarily prepared to go public, and probably even less so now after witnessing the backlash against me. I think any atmosphere that stifles debate is an unhealthy one.
    Hmm, mostly the discussion has been that it is pleasing people care enough to discuss whether a job we are doing our damnedest to do well, is being done well enough.

    The "official" madmin team don't stifle the debate. The "backlash" looks to me to be usual combination of people over invested, people who don't care less, and a few who like to see a train wreck.

    On a personal level, I suspect I'm not the only one kinda bored by it all.

  8. #378
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Technically, "about ready" and "disappearing" don't constitute "leaving". I'm a P! Anyway, I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. The tone of this and your other posts to me demonstrate your obvious antipathy. You're one of the people that I rub the wrong way. I get it.
    Actually, you don't get it. I neither like you nor dislike you. Hence, you don't rub me anyway in particular.

    And I honor your right, and anyone else's, to speak their mind. But when you make a direct claim toward me, I'm going to ask that you give evidence in order to back up your claim. I'm happy to take shots if I deserve them, but I'm not going let anyone that feels like it toss half truths or complete lies toward me just so they can add me to their complaint.

    Oh and, how about this one:

    "Laters!

    bluemonday has left the building."

    And I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my question as to what the following quote means and when did I do that specifically:

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday
    I could reasonably expect that they wouldn't rummage through my pockets or gossip about me in the kitchen.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  9. #379
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Hmm, mostly the discussion has been that it is pleasing people care enough to discuss whether a job we are doing our damnedest to do well, is being done well enough.

    The "official" madmin team don't stifle the debate. The "backlash" looks to me to be usual combination of people over invested, people who don't care less, and a few who like to see a train wreck.

    On a personal level, I suspect I'm not the only one kinda bored by it all.
    Nope. I've only stepped in when it seemed like something was misrepresented or misunderstood. Like bluemonday's miunderstanding about her warning, which IMO was actually very interesting considering we were already having a discussion in the modbox about whether people realize that warnings are not that big of a deal, mainly a way for us to keep track of who has told what to whom (since it generates a new thread in the modbox each time). They're different from infractions which are always discussed and agreed on before being given out. But people seem to respond to them identically.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #380
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    You know what I find interesting? (And I'll explain this so that there can be no misunderstanding.) The whole thing where someone (that would be YOU) wrongs another person (that would be ME) and then ends up despising them and wronging them further. What is that called? I saw a beautiful example of it in The Kite Runner, recently. Cognitive dissonance at work again, I guess? It's one of the more despicable parts of human nature. I tried making light of your nastiness, I tried honestly telling you how I felt in PM after you persisted in insulting me. Neither approach has worked.
    No need to reply. Just put me on your ignore list - you are now on mine.
    It really is interesting. My theory is that they cannot stomach the idea that they were the offender. Especially if you call them out on it - there is too much at stake. Their self-perception requires that they seem themselves as "nice" people. If they relent, then they would have to admit their bloody hands. Their distorted understanding of themselves requires that they never admit this.

    I wonder if it is that they are truly batshit and unable to see it or in fact conducting thought experiments to see how people react to the dissonance of their being an ultra-nasty piece of work while laying claim to righteousness.
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
    The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying

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