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  1. #361
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure, you guys, that there isn't more than one. Think I spotted her in Dec.

    I did confront Blue with her dupe the other day and she denied it so maybe we're all wrong? She said there wasn't one. Must be the truth.

    And if you don't stop snickering at me I'm going to tell a poop joke.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #362
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    You're basically chillin' in Haight & fc's virtual living room. They (and their loyal helpers) are happy to have you here as their guest, but please bear some manners and respect!
    No disrespect was intended I assure you, which part did you think was disrespectful and to whom? I purposely waited and gave this a lot of thought before posting. I wanted to be measured and fair but still true to what I felt. I don't bear any ill-will towards anyone here, not even Haight, who has made it clear on more than one occasion that he would like me banned for reasons which have never been explained to me.

    Let's use your analogy (inappropriate though it may be): If they invited me around to their living room, they could reasonably expect that I wouldn't trash it or abuse their guests. I could reasonably expect that they wouldn't rummage through my pockets or gossip about me in the kitchen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Can I delete that dupe that you created after you said you were leaving?
    Which one?

    When did I say I was leaving?

    Wishful thinking, Haighters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsh63
    Any thoughts can be expressed that do not conflict with forum policy and there is a lot of leeway here... but perhaps not enough for some. Fortunately, the internet provides ample opportunity for those who need to, to find (or create at their own expense) forums with less draconian strictures where their insights can be more freely shared.
    I'm not suggesting the forum shouldn't be moderated - that would suck. I think I've expressed my appreciation for the work the mods do more than once. And I'd be perfectly willing to pay a subscription fee, were the site to be run professionally/commercially. But I think more transparency can only be a good thing. I think it would help prevent the sort of thing that led to the creation of this thread as well as the sort of thing that is happening now with all the "Bring back Jack" stuff.

    Why does this happen? Because people don't trust a decision. Why don't people trust a decision?

    - they aren't privy to all the facts
    and/or
    - they don't know/trust the impartiality of the mods
    and/or
    - they don't believe the rules are applied consistently

    This doesn't only apply to banning, it applies to all interventions (e.g. deleting / moving posts, warnings, infractions, whatever).

    A personal example: A while ago I received an infraction for revealing something sent in an insulting rep (which are private, apparently). That isn't against the rules - I checked. Perhaps I should have guessed that it was? According to the rules, infractions are only for repeat/serious offenses, i.e., I should have been given a warning, at worst. But I wasn't.
    What is the point of having rules if they aren't going to be applied consistently? I could cite other examples.

    The general line is "what would the average man or woman on the street think/do?" If the moderators, who are also active participants, with their own cliques and history on this and other forums, truly believe themselves to be impartial, then they are only fooling themselves.

    You will see the analogy of school teacher/children used repeatedly in this thread. But the members here are not children, and to treat them as such is patronizing and disrespectful. They *are* the average man and woman on the street - why not ask them?

    Transparency
    Consistency
    Consultation


    I should probably have posted this in the feedback forum and just referenced this thread. I dont mind being told if/why I'm wrong, just don't appreciate being told that giving honest feedback is in some way unacceptable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    lies. damned lies. statistics? not so much
    Oh dear Anya, is this the third or fourth time you've accused me of something without any substantiating evidence only to make yourself the butt of the joke? Next you'll be saying I'm Edmond Zedo. You really ought to be more careful or you'll end up with a reputation as a malicious (and what is worse, ill-informed) gossip. And then you might have to change your name or sumthin....


    FAOD: The person heretofore known as bluemonday has not and has never had any intention of posting anything on this forum under any (other) assumed identity (to its knowledge - though he/she gets a bit fuzzy when off 'the meds').
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #363
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    bluemonday, you have never received any infractions. You have received one warning for the thing you mentioned above. The mods have no way of knowing if the privately communicated info you allude to came from a PM. Admins can see reps but we don't go looking at them unless someone seems to be experiencing harassment. In any case, the FAQ was written before the rep system was added to the forum, and all private forum communication is treated the same way for the purposes of that policy. The rule includes IM and chat so it's not a huge intuitive leap to also include the rep system. The text of the warning sent to you was simply a friendly reminder of a rule in the FAQ.

    Normally we do not reveal these things on the open forum. That's not cloak and dagger; it's meant to protect the privacy of the members, but once you talk about it on the forum yourself, you make it fair game.

    Edited to add: the guideline in the FAQ regarding private communication has been edited.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #364
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I'm not suggesting the forum shouldn't be moderated - that would suck. I think I've expressed my appreciation for the work the mods do more than once. And I'd be perfectly willing to pay a subscription fee, were the site to be run professionally/commercially. But I think more transparency can only be a good thing. I think it would help prevent the sort of thing that led to the creation of this thread as well as the sort of thing that is happening now with all the "Bring back Jack" stuff.

    Why does this happen? Because people don't trust a decision. Why don't people trust a decision?

    - they aren't privy to all the facts
    and/or
    - they don't know/trust the impartiality of the mods
    and/or
    - they don't believe the rules are applied consistently
    I detected a lot more mod-related lameness in the "Corrupt Administration" thread. Concerning Jack and Zergling, I'm not sure what more mods could do to be transparent. Everyone knows why Jack was banned for 6 months, and I don't think they should have been expected to post that PM Zergling made to everyone. It looks like they alluded to it sufficiently.

    Another thing that is lame is once a member leaves, all the people who had problems with that member come out of the woodwork and diss them. But while the poster was around, they were mostly non confrontational. I think insults make the world go round, but only if the other person can hear it.

    *tries to pave the way for a graceful bluemonday return*

  5. #365
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    blue i liked you better when I thought you were an INTP lesbian.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  6. #366
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post

    The general line is "what would the average man or woman on the street think/do?" If the moderators, who are also active participants, with their own cliques and history on this and other forums, truly believe themselves to be impartial, then they are only fooling themselves.

    You will see the analogy of school teacher/children used repeatedly in this thread. But the members here are not children, and to treat them as such is patronizing and disrespectful. They *are* the average man and woman on the street - why not ask them?

    Transparency
    Consistency
    Consultation


    I should probably have posted this in the feedback forum and just referenced this thread. I dont mind being told if/why I'm wrong, just don't appreciate being told that giving honest feedback is in some way unacceptable.
    I must be honest with you, blue: you have always been one of my favorite members. You've consistently offered a unique panorama of biting wit alongside an indelible humanity that is a rare find - offline or on.

    To your specific complaint on the apparent lack of neutrality (for the sake of clarity, I'll presume you meant in a non-academic/observer bias fashion), I assure you that we work to stamp out emotive analysis whenever possible -- sometimes even resorting to disengaging ourselves from active administrative oversight when we become too personally involved in a discussion.

    With that thought in mind, the decision to temporarily suspend Flak was convened with painstaking precision. We always offer individual analysis before corroborating our group perspective into a final behavior (many times absorbing days/weeks of collective investigation as a means to actively reduce individual bias that would otherwise be an unavoidable artifact of administrative adjudication.

    Jack's decision to behave poorly was a strategic act of self-mutilation. To offer it in any other way would be to insult the clarity of his intelligence.

    I hope you'll reconsider your decision.

  7. #367
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I don't bear any ill-will towards anyone here, not even Haight, who has made it clear on more than one occasion that he would like me banned for reasons which have never been explained to me.
    Show me where I said that, and I will show where I told you why I said that.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I could reasonably expect that they wouldn't rummage through my pockets or gossip about me in the kitchen.
    What are you talking about.

    Drop the hyperbole and give me facts. When and where did I do that?


    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    When did I say I was leaving?
    Um. . . here:
    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Don't worry. I'm about ready to leave. I don't need a red card.
    . . . and here:

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    LOL! This is errmm, embarrassing. I don't know whether to be flattered or freaked out. There goes my plan to disappear discreetly
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  8. #368
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Transparency
    If you really doubt that the banned (and the damned) are getting their 2 warnings as per the rules, the only way to solve that is to make every *warning* public. Not just the bannings. If you want to suggest that, then we can have an Official Vote of MBTI.

    The thing is, people who get warnings usually don't want to air their public laundry.

    If you want 'transparency' just use the 'search' function. I don't think I've ever questioned a banning because I know from reading their own words that they had warnings and ban-worthy posts.

    I don't need transparency because it's transparent enough for me.

    You call it "Tomatoe" I call it "Bannable post"
    If the issue is that members just don't agree that an action is warning-worthy or ban-worthy that is another issue entirely. I guess we can start running things on a democratic vote system, but really, to me, there have been CLEARLY bannable posts and behavior and they have been dealt with appropriately. I

    And do you really not think that Jack's drunken tirade alone was ban-worthy? I mean, technically the kid had at least 4 posts which in themselves were each worthy of a warning. (I'm surprised no one has asked the more technical points of the warning system.)

    If a member so badly wants a a rough and tumble free for all and be entertained with bad behavior, there are LOTS of other forums for that. This isn't one of them. This forum is being run exactly how it was advertised and this is exactly the forum I signed up for.

    I don't want to see this place turn into a juvenile free for all. I think INTPc is over that way, yes? (HA, I kid, I'm not even a member there)

    Cycles of Tension and Violence, Scapegoating
    I totally disagree about scapegoating and I take exception to these ideas because it implies this forum and the members are engaging in unhealthy/unfair/dysfunctional behavior. I am also puzzled by a juxtaposition of cycles of escalating tension/violence - a common theory of domestic violence - to this forum. I don't think it fits at all.

    Unless people are saying this behavior is 'normal' and 'human' and applying it to the microcosm of MBTI? I guess I'm not so interested in having those discussions right now because I still don't really see it.

    If you look at the history of bannings, it's pretty clear cut and there have only been maybe 2 controversial bannings. Other bannings were spammers or obvious trolls or else the impact of the banned member was minimal or short lived. It doesn't back up a theory of escalating levels of tension and cycles of violence IMO.

    And I personally don't feel any building tension with requsite outbursts that bring it back to calm. Not at all.

    If anything I feel personally irritated and building tension now after the fact. I had minimal interaction and was on neutral terms with Jack before his bannable tirade, but this post-Jack aftermath irks me. This is probably the most "serious" and "legitimate" thread borne out of that, which is why I'm expending energy to respond here. Maybe we'll finally get somewhere!!!
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  9. #369
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    *takes a look at forum threads over the last month*

    Some would say INTPc is less juvenile because it is more of a "free for all."
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
    The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying

  10. #370
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post

    Oh dear Anya, is this the third or fourth time you've accused me of something without any substantiating evidence only to make yourself the butt of the joke?


    . . . though he/she gets a bit fuzzy when off 'the meds').
    Edit: The "snippet I am referring to was "lies. damn lies. Statistics? Not so much."

    Nolla's just gonna have to pop some more popcorn on this one, I guess. Because I'd like to comment on this snippet you posted.

    I don't recall ever addressing you with this comment. Since it's not in context I can't say what I was referring to. But I doubt very much that I would ever say "damned lies" in response to anyone directly in regards to their words. That's a certain level of disrespect that I seldom stoop to.

    Chances are it was in reference to public opinion or a comment by the press or a politician. Frankly, it must have been quite a while ago as I don't remember making it at all. But that wouldn't be unusual for me.

    Your comment about not taking "meds" offers some understanding on my part. Seems it would be a good idea for you to be regular with that habit.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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