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  1. #261
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    This is very true.

    Often, the friction in reconciling this polarity is where many people find their disconnect.

    This thread provides ample illustration.
    I read this thread as people feeling betrayed - both the mods being betrayed by Zergling and members feeling betrayed by mods. Of all the hurt people, there is no suggestion that anyone leave so neither side is suggesting any action that reflects their negative feelings. I read everyone separating feelings from actions whether they accept or reject the events based on their personal ideas about how people are expected to interact.

    There are distinctions between confidences between friends and communication in professional settings. The differences are based on the level of power and consequences based on that information. Boards like these are inherently blurred because they are primarily social. I think the indistinct nature of the context has produced this confusion regarding expectations of communication styles.

    I do consider social etiquette to be a strong component of leadership. The way a person communicates about people with a trusted, intimate confidant and professional peers is different. For example, as a teacher it would be unethical for me to express dislike for a student to anyone also dealing with that student because of the power I have in that context. Such feelings would be controlled inside the teacher's head because they are irrelevant to the function of that role. Discussing problems that need resolution w/o any reference to personal feeling is the appropriate, efficient way of addressing student concerns. What are mods? Intimate confidants or professional peers? There is a small level of power involved which suggests some impact on style of communication, but it isn't as significant as in a professional setting. It has a small town management feel to it to some extent. It is a confusing, indistinct setting which has produced this unfortunate event.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #262
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    It's interesting that both poles of ideals require a similar faith in humanity. For some they have faith that the thoughts and actions within people can be consistent, while others have faith that people can effectively compartmentalize dichotomies between thoughts and actions. Both poles require a kind of idealism about people.
    if the people they were talking about are still around, then whether or not they can compartmentalize isn't a mystery. obviously, they can.
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  3. #263
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    In fact, this thread makes me wonder why people confuse social etiquette/tact with effective governing ability.
    does anything about the mere existanse of this issue scream "effective governing ability" to you?

    Not that I agree with any of your choices of words. I'd probably throw out everything but social and effective.
    Last edited by ThatsWhatHeSaid; 08-27-2008 at 10:58 AM.
    I don't wanna!

  4. #264
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Not that I agree with any of your choices of words. I'd probably throw out everything but social and effective.
    Flirt.

  5. #265
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    if the people they were talking about are still around, then whether or not they can compartmentalize isn't a mystery. obviously, they can.
    Yes. Exactly.

    And let's say that one or two people cannot compartmentalize. . . that's what the other mods and admins are for. As a mod, it's not my job to like everyone, and I have even publically expressed dislike for people (including Wolf--we both do not like each other at all). However, I would never ever let personal feelings affect my decision-making. And if I sensed that they were getting in the way, I would take a step back and remove myself from the process.

    I think that we're hypersensitive about making the wrong decision when it come to giving infractions or banning people or choosing to do nothing at all. We know you guys will give us hell if we do something that even gives the slight impression that we are carrying out a personal agenda, which is good. It means that we have to be accountable for our actions.

  6. #266
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I hadn't planned on saying anything else but this has been eating away at me for several days so here goes. As far as I know 8 people were sent this pm because Zergling was asked to stop being too strict by the mods and admins and he didn't like it so he lashed out by compiling private conversations and making them public which no matter how hard you try and rationalize it, was the wrong thing to do.

    Now I'm going to tell the truth here and be completely honest. The pm that Zergling sent out wasn't as juicy as some of your imaginations may think. It was a group deciding on what to do about a certain member who has a history of inappropriate behavior and who has been clever enough to skirt around being banned for quite some time. This member in the past has referred to me as a racist (which is untrue), called Ivy a whore (untrue and disrespectful) and came on to a 13 year old girl (he was aware of her age) among many other things. Two other members was discussed in the pm very briefly and I agree wholeheartedly with their assessment(s) of them. The moderators and admins were looking out for the forums best interest.

    Now I realize that some of you who received the pm will not agree with this and that's your right to do so but having given this much thought over the last several days (while putting my personal feelings of a select few aside), this is how I now view what really took place.

    I am very saddened that some of my friends have been hurt by this. What seems like a stupid conversation to some of you actually has been hurtful to many which was Zerglings intent.

    We all gossip but never imagine that someone would be so spiteful and childish as to spread out private discussions around like a virus, hurting many from all angles. My feelings were hurt in this as well and I responded emotionally earlier, in and out of this thread and for that I am sorry.

    There will be no resolution for this and my suggestion would be to let it go and enjoy the forum. There are many valuable, mind expanding topics to be discussed and I can assure you this isn't one of them. Fighting, arguing and tearing each other a new one is exactly what Zergling had in mind and while I can't speak for all of you, I'm not one to comply with assholes so I choose to take all of this hatefulness and stick it back up Zerglings ass where it belongs and I hope it gives him the runs for days along with vomiting mixed with just about anything else that will ruin his week.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  7. #267
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    I think a thread split is in order.

  8. #268
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I just want to say that I still believe in the Moderators/Admins here. I've at times taken issue with their way of making decisions, even questioned their motives when particularly annoyed, but I do believe they ultimately have our best interests at heart, regardless of what may or may not have been said behind the scenes. I'm somewhat appalled at the erosion of good faith that has occurred here, simply because one person exposed personal venting about members on the part of the mods. It's somewhat unreasonable to expect people to be nice all the time, and never express anything that would be hurtful. Everyone judges other people... often even to the point of hypocrisy.

    I think it very reasonable for people to become comfortable in a semi-private setting with close associates enough to express highly negative, critical things about the people in their lives that frustrate them. I also think it is reasonable to expect that when there is the expectation that the comments will not be made public, they will not be, and that to do so is a violation of that trust and that person's rights. The moderators rights were violated by Zergling here, and I'm surprised that everyone is acting as if they are the ones who are guilty of something.

    I want to leave you with a thought. I have a few friends, and at times they've all done things that have annoyed me. Now, I usually don't say anything about this to them directly, because I know that would just anger them, is really related only to my own ideals, and will not be constructive (if I do think it's constructive to express it, I usually will). I feel I have to vent this somewhere, however, and I usually end up talking about their behavior to another friend... maybe complaining that a person was schmaltzy, whiny, ignorant, egotistical, dogmatic, etc. The thing is, despite my negative judgment of the person's actions and character, I may well still like the person and want to associate with them. I may not like what they did or how they are in that respect, may even loathe it, but that doesn't mean I don't like them in other ways.

    Criticizing someone isn't the same as hating them... in fact, some of the people I've said the cruelest things about are the ones I cared about. Now, people do often take such things personally, which is why it can be very bad for these things to become known. But a lot of people need an outlet, and I don't think that needing an outlet for negativity makes a person inferior to people who are always direct and never need to express anything except to people's faces. It's an individual trait difference that should be respected. The right to retaining assumed privacy in a conversation should be preserved. If it's violated, people should try their best not to hold a person to the same standards of accountability they would for something said publicly. It makes about as much sense as punishing someone for what they dreamed about or said in their sleep. Some people just can't keep their guard up all the time, and things slip when they feel comfortable.

  9. #269
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    FWIW Wolf is a good friend of mine and I have spent enough time communicating with him over the past few years to understand him as a person. Now it's my choice to compartmentalize and maintain a balanced view of other people I trust and like who make personal judgments about him without much thought or background.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #270
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    FWIW Wolf is a good friend of mine and I have spent enough time communicating with him over the past few years to understand him as a person. Now it's my choice to compartmentalize and maintain a balanced view of other people I trust and like who make personal judgments about him without much thought or background.
    exactly. we're all free to have personal opinions. it's whether or not they get in the way of decisions being made that those opinions truly matter as far as "job description" goes.

    and from what i've seen, those opinions haven't effected anyone's job except for the brat's that started all of this, and he was fired.

    people would bitch if true thoughts were made public OR if they were kept private if those thoughts weren't glowing.

    had they been talking to one another in a private setting and saying how wonderful everyone is, no one would have a problem. and, apparently, many assumed that's what they did. well, welcome to the real world. mod's jobs are to be nice to your face.
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