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  1. #211
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I confused Jeffster's writing for Jennifer's, as it was steeped in sugary metaphor and aromatic phrasing - features I would normally link to Jennifer's pen.

    Nevertheless, I blundered.

    It happens. Frequently.


    That WOULD surprise me and be a curiosity to me, if I'd made the same mistake.

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  2. #212
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    On a sidenote, Jeffster, I think you might be corroding a digit in your MBTI array.

    I've thought this for some time now, but didn't have the direct representation (perhaps a controversial topic (such that the Zergling issue has become...) bubbles more of your ostensible identity to the surface of your online personality) available to make a concerted deduction.


    You just became slightly more curious to me, Jeffster.

    Yeah, an interesting mistake.

    But I think Jeffster is becoming more interesting.

  3. #213
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Jeffster, two things I find amusing here:

    1. The fact that you are exclusively getting your information from this thread alone somehow means you have a clearer picture than I do

    2. Where was all this moral high ground when I was making my Cult Of Four pamphlet? How was the discussion that led to its creation different from this in any way at all? We made a list of members I could use and discussed their negative traits, with a fair bit of snarkiness represented IIRC. Did that cause offense? Should we make that public for all to see? Would those things have been said at all if it -were- public? Was it an all-around shitty thing for me to do? If so, it strikes me as very odd that it won first place. And that you voted for it, apparently.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  4. #214
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I object to that entire attitude. I just don't have that kind of mindset that I consider private messaging someone to gossip about other people. I can't fathom what it's like to have that mentality, especially adults. I mean, why would you waste time discussing "finding a member distasteful"? I mean, wow..I just don't even know what to say to that, wouldn't you rather watch glue dry than spend time discussing people you don't like? I've seen this happen in my workplace, actually. It used to be we would all eat lunch together (besides the boss) and it seemed like the topic of conversation was always just bashing the boss. Now, I had no problem with people pointing out decisions he made they didn't agree with, if they had some alternative solution or something constructive to say, but when it was just endless ranting that could just be summed up as "the boss sucks" then what the hell is the point?
    Let's assume there are people you don't like... or who get their goat becuase of the way they act. Heck, I'll do if you want to take an immediate example. So what do you do when you need to blow off steam about that someone you don't like.. do you tell them? How does that work for you?

    Don't you ever sit down with a friend and say "Gee, that guy I know Geoff.. he annoyed me today. He just plans sucks, stupid idiot!" on the assumption that the comments will stay private?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster
    It seems to me that a private forum for moderators should be for discussing if a member has violated forum rules, or various non-member-specific topics about the direction of the board. I can only assume that those are the usual purposes the mods here use it for. I assumed right off the bat in reading Zergling's PM that he had edited together "the worst of the mods" kinda the way MTV does the Real World or any of those "reality" shows where they try to play up only certain elements of characters. So don't think I'm sitting here thinking that every topic in the private forum is all "OMG Member X is like so stupid, did you see that post he made about fruit? ROFL, and that pic of his girlfriend! What a ho! roflollercoaster!"
    Oh yes, he did do the editing thing. We have a daily thread where we monitor dull stuff about how many people are logged on and how it is coping, spammers that join, a little chit chat etc. In 200 pages of this he found the handful of "worst" comments from a number of conversations and cobbled them together - edited out his own contributions(!) and then sent it out. So it ought to be taken in context, distasteful though it is.
    I dont think any of those comments came from a specific madmin thread about any of the issues concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster
    But it's disturbing that it's used for personal comments at all to me, but again maybe it's me. I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm just some nut who doesn't get the joy and fulfillment of writing little nasty notes about people. Because I don't get it. I get mad at people, I get annoyed at people like anyone else, and I can't say I've never made off the cuff remarks about another person, but before you post something or send an email or PM or whatever, you can stop and think about what you're sending. It's the same reason I don't understand why people spew profanities in posts, either. I mean, I know sometimes in real speaking, stuff just blurts out, but you actually sit there and consider what you're going to type and then still choose to make it vulgar? I mean, I don't understand that at all.

    Sorry I'm getting off on a tangent ramble, I tend to do that, I'm gonna stop now, hopefully I answered your question. I would hope teachers aren't saying that kind of stuff about students, but maybe I'm being naive. Thinking that ill of people makes me want to cry, though. I like to think better of people, but I guess maybe sometimes I'm denying reality.
    I can understand you are disturbed. Hell, I'm a bit disturbed about it too and I didn't think any comments would be aired. I'm more concerned about the breach of privacy though. I'm also with you on the cussing.

    I think you'll find teachers do say things about students behind their backs, in private. This is how we cope in situations where we can't address the concerns direct to the end user. We have to blow off steam somehow or we bottle it all up and then DO explode at the end user. Better a teacher vents a bit with a fellow teacher about a troublesome child than explode to the child themself?

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    2. Where was all this moral high ground when I was making my Cult Of Four pamphlet? How was the discussion that led to its creation different from this in any way at all? We made a list of members I could use and discussed their negative traits, with a fair bit of snarkiness represented IIRC. Did that cause offense? Should we make that public for all to see? Would those things have been said at all if it -were- public? Was it an all-around shitty thing for me to do? If so, it strikes me as very odd that it won first place. And that you voted for it, apparently.
    Hey now, don't go spoiling the memory of Team Red there mister.

    /pours a 40 on the curb for Red Team

  6. #216
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Exactly. It definitely wasn't merely run-of-the-mill gossip, it was a bit of rumor mixed with the most childish and creepy forms of "assholery".
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    That was not "blowing off steam".


    Snarky wouldn't be the word to describe what you said.


    If plotting crimes is "confidential", sure.
    Ok. What sort of assholery and crimes are we dealing with here?

  7. #217
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yes, I've moderated and it was on a large, high volume board. If you want to know where, PM me and I'll tell.
    I wonder if people got as many second chances on your board as they do here?

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    If it had been mere discussion of board activities, then the reactions would be vastly different.
    I saw nothing that wasn't about board activities. Maybe it wasn't cold, mechanical, and businesslike, but neither is this board.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    It isn't what they said, so much as where they said it. Like Martoon and Looking4bestinU pointed out, it would have been so easy to take such to PM but the Modbox is a more public place and could be copied and pasted so easily, just as was done.

    When I moderated before, we weren't allowed to do anything in our moderator areas that was offlimits on the main boards and that definately included personal attacks or badmouthing members. Our private email was our own, but we weren't allowed to reveal what our non-moderator screen names were so we really didn't socialize as moderators, just talked really bare bones about the issues we dealt with on the board.
    Improper security precautions is a totally valid compliant and I dispute nothing there. I'd say it's another nod at the open, liberal, and tolerant stance of this board.

    And no, tolerance is not blinding yourself to someone's faults, nor is it never saying anything negative. Tolerance is, well, tolerating those faults, as in "not banning for being someone I would not invite to dinner".

    In the end, though, he simply would have had less to go on, but would still have had plenty. Using a private, locked forum is just more expedient than a PM CC'd to every mod. But he'd likely have gotten those CC's, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    What I saw wasn't necessary for a moderator's job.
    Ehhh, I'd say it was, it just was not ground into hamburger and cooked into Politically Sterile Comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    No one has denied the content of the PM so far. It's clear that he took the worst of the worst and placed into a PM and perhaps edited his own part out but the fact remains that the worst was there to be harvested and no one has denied the content. His motivations don't really change the facts or results.
    I'd disagree there. His motivations certainly color the facts, and the results. It becomes a lot easier to take criticism, even of this nature, if there's some compliment thrown in with it. He surgically removed all traces of compliment, which severely colored the results.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    As far as this teacher in a staffroom , I cannot imagine a modern teacher being allowed to badmouth students in the teacher lounge. I can see it happening in private between two teachers on the phone or in their homes but I cannot imagine teacher's risking their jobs to jeer and snicker about the nerd kids or the awkward kids in the loungeroom.
    More like the problem kids. You can't say to the kid "WTF you little shit, do you think I'm so stupid that I can't see you're lying your little ass off?!?" A good way to avoid actually saying this to him, which is a danger if it's a cumulative, daily pressure, is to crack the seal in a place where the steam won't do damage.

    I honestly fail to see the difference between the lounge and a phone call from a moral perspective, only an epidemiological one. Again, though, if your complaint is about security precautions or lack thereof, I'll fold and you can have the pot.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  8. #218
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I confused Jeffster's writing for Jennifer's, as it was steeped in sugary metaphor and aromatic phrasing - features I would normally link to Jennifer's pen. Nevertheless, I blundered.
    If you think this is bad, you should see us when we go out for coffee together -- we get mistaken for each other all the time.

    (Where are those Doublemint commercial agents when we need them?)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #219
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yeah, an interesting mistake.

    But I think Jeffster is becoming more interesting.
    Heh, thanks I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    Jeffster, two things I find amusing here:

    1. The fact that you are exclusively getting your information from this thread alone somehow means you have a clearer picture than I do
    Nah, I didn't say I had a clearer picture than you. All I did was dispute your interpretation of the comments that were made, taking it for "middleschool emo" or something, it didn't seem to jive with what people were actually saying. No one made the suggestions you implied they were making.

    2. Where was all this moral high ground when I was making my Cult Of Four pamphlet? How was the discussion that led to its creation different from this in any way at all? We made a list of members I could use and discussed their negative traits, with a fair bit of snarkiness represented IIRC. Did that cause offense? Should we make that public for all to see? Would those things have been said at all if it -were- public? Was it an all-around shitty thing for me to do? If so, it strikes me as very odd that it won first place. And that you voted for it, apparently.
    To be perfectly honest, I paid very little attention to that particular challenge. I thought the whole concept was stupid and didn't have any desire to participate in it. I voted for it because I was supporting my team, plain and simple. To continue my frank honesty, if I had paid attention and noticed comments I thought were especially negative about other members, I still probably wouldn't have said anything, because I was afraid to. I may have my moments of standing up for people, but I don't always summon th courage to do so, sometimes I stew silently about stuff and mourn the hostility from afar.

    And I don't know where this "moral high ground" stuff comes from. It seems like more putting words in my mouth. I have never once claimed here or anywhere else to be more moral than anyone else. I'm only stating my view of things based on my own perceptions, not judging any other person or viewing myself as superior in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Let's assume there are people you don't like... or who get their goat becuase of the way they act. Heck, I'll do if you want to take an immediate example. So what do you do when you need to blow off steam about that someone you don't like.. do you tell them? How does that work for you?

    Don't you ever sit down with a friend and say "Gee, that guy I know Geoff.. he annoyed me today. He just plans sucks, stupid idiot!" on the assumption that the comments will stay private?
    No, like I said, I don't do that. I might think things like that sometimes but I calm down in a few minutes and they pass usually. If someone hurts me very deeply, it might fester a little longer, but it's really extremely rare that I just start ranting about someone in a personal manner. I think that's a really childish thing to do, and just plain wrong. That's just how I see it.


    Oh yes, he did do the editing thing. We have a daily thread where we monitor dull stuff about how many people are logged on and how it is coping, spammers that join, a little chit chat etc. In 200 pages of this he found the handful of "worst" comments from a number of conversations and cobbled them together - edited out his own contributions(!) and then sent it out. So it ought to be taken in context, distasteful though it is.
    I dont think any of those comments came from a specific madmin thread about any of the issues concerned.
    Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured, and that's why I wasn't charging in here ranting and raving about how you all suck and only use the modbox as a gossip forum. I think I said it was a shame that it was used for that purpose at all, and that was about it.


    I think you'll find teachers do say things about students behind their backs, in private. This is how we cope in situations where we can't address the concerns direct to the end user. We have to blow off steam somehow or we bottle it all up and then DO explode at the end user. Better a teacher vents a bit with a fellow teacher about a troublesome child than explode to the child themself?

    Well, yeah, as much as I hate the hypothetical questions I have to say yes, if a teacher really can't stop him or herself from making personal comments about a student, then it probably is better that he or she do it in private than at a student. Assuming we're talking about minors here, because if it's college level then I change my answer and think it's better to confront a student head on at that point. At least it would be for me. And that's where I think it's closer to an internet forum. Most of the members here are adults, not children.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  10. #220
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Oh and if Night was saying that my writing was "sugary metaphor" then I challenge him to a duel right now, because that's just plain insulting!



    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

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