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  1. #191
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    This is a subjective opinion, but what was said was not that bad...

    I read it and was actually bored.

  2. #192
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Or not nicely said at all, and a complete mischaracterization of people's reactions. Noah did a great job ripping up a straw man that he created himself, which really doesn't take that much effort!
    It wasn't a straw man, I called it like I saw it. What is it you perceive that I got wrong, exactly?
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  3. #193
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    It wasn't a straw man, I called it like I saw it. What is it you perceive that I got wrong, exactly?
    all of this....

    Would you honestly prefer that they make their votes on who gets banned, who gets second chances, and who should be a new mod WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION?!?

    Seriously, my opinion of a huge chunk of people around here has plummeted drastically with your explosive reactions to learning that moderators, *GASP*, don't like everyone equally, and actually talk to each other about such feelings. You are taking something totally common and necessary and blowing it into some pathetic middleschool emo drama frenzy.
    Nobody did any of the stuff in your second paragraph in this topic or suggested the stuff in your first paragraph. So unless you're talking about somewhere outside this topic, then I don't know where that stuff comes from other than your own head.

    I think characterizing anyone's reactions as "explosive" is a big overstatement. There have been a grand total of three people in this topic that have had what I would consider a strong negative reaction to the content of Zerg's PM, Wolf, Jen, and Lookin. And none of those three people suggested that the moderators should be required to "like everyone equally" or not be able to have discussions about whether someone should be banned or made a moderator. The comments objected to were the ones of a very personal nature that crossed the line beyond discussing whether rules were violated to out-and-out personal attacks and character assassination of certain members as well as discussion of members' social lives and other comments completely irrelevant to forum rules or moderation of the board.

    I can only assume you felt the need to stand up for Ivy's honor without specifically stating so, but instead you're projecting a sentiment into the topic that wasn't there, in order to have something easy to attack, rather than defend the actual behavior that was objected to by the few members who spoke up about the subject.

    And I'm not attempting to attack you, just to point out that I think you've missed the point of the entire objection.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  4. #194
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post

    I think characterizing anyone's reactions as "explosive" is a big overstatement. There have been a grand total of three people in this topic that have had what I would consider a strong negative reaction to the content of Zerg's PM, Wolf, Jen, and Lookin. And none of those three people suggested that the moderators should be required to "like everyone equally" or not be able to have discussions about whether someone should be banned or made a moderator. The comments objected to were the ones of a very personal nature that crossed the line beyond discussing whether rules were violated to out-and-out personal attacks and character assassination of certain members as well as discussion of members' social lives and other comments completely irrelevant to forum rules or moderation of the board.
    Can I just ask here.. as it might help my understanding.

    Do you object to other members (madmins or otherwise) holding and discussing their opinions of other members in private?

    Cos if so.. it is a tough ask if you want everyone to like everyone.. or to require that if they find a member distasteful that they can't discuss this and their opinions in private?

    Is it just that it was sent around the forum?

    Is it that it's not pleasant to find out the madmin team are not always "nice" about their charges? Much as schoolteachers, in a staffroom?

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    What exactly did you people think a moderator's job was, exactly? Have you ever done it? Was it on FluffyBunnyHarmonyRainbowpuke.com??
    Yes, I've moderated and it was on a large, high volume board. If you want to know where, PM me and I'll tell.

    Would you honestly prefer that they make their votes on who gets banned, who gets second chances, and who should be a new mod WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION?!?
    If it had been mere discussion of board activities, then the reactions would be vastly different.

    Seriously, my opinion of a huge chunk of people around here has plummeted drastically with your explosive reactions to learning that moderators, *GASP*, don't like everyone equally, and actually talk to each other about such feelings.
    Ditto, but in the other direction.

    It isn't what they said, so much as where they said it. Like Martoon and Looking4bestinU pointed out, it would have been so easy to take such to PM but the Modbox is a more public place and could be copied and pasted so easily, just as was done.

    When I moderated before, we weren't allowed to do anything in our moderator areas that was offlimits on the main boards and that definately included personal attacks or badmouthing members. Our private email was our own, but we weren't allowed to reveal what our non-moderator screen names were so we really didn't socialize as moderators, just talked really bare bones about the issues we dealt with on the board.



    You are taking something totally common and necessary and blowing it into some pathetic middleschool emo drama frenzy.
    What I saw wasn't necessary for a moderator's job.


    You're completely ignoring everything but what Zergling printed, which was entirely selected to further his own ends, and by doing so you are ZERGLING'S SUCKER. Congratulations!
    No one has denied the content of the PM so far. It's clear that he took the worst of the worst and placed into a PM and perhaps edited his own part out but the fact remains that the worst was there to be harvested and no one has denied the content. His motivations don't really change the facts or results.

    Since when do you expect a community to be comprised of people who are never irritated by each other and never notice each other's flaws? Only perfect people need apply, maybe? Pretend to like everyone or else? Get a grip, y'all, srsly.
    Again, it is not what was said, but where and how easy it was for it to get into member's hands. Yes, I am probably biased because of the previous circumstances when I moderated a message board. We were held to high standards in our personal conduct while we were acting as moderators. It helped that we had seperate screen names for it though, I admit that. We were forbidden to tell anyone what our non moderator screen names were. So it kept the whole thing totally seperate.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As far as this teacher in a staffroom , I cannot imagine a modern teacher being allowed to badmouth students in the teacher lounge. I can see it happening in private between two teachers on the phone or in their homes but I cannot imagine teacher's risking their jobs to jeer and snicker about the nerd kids or the awkward kids in the loungeroom.

  6. #196
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    This all comes back to age old question: Is it rude to stare at a blind man?

    No, because he'll never know.

    What if somebody tells him and he is offended?

    Then it is the fault of the person who told him as they were the impetus to the offense and disharmony.

    If I thought that I could never say mean things behind people's backs, then life would be a lot more difficult for me. It's definitely unfortunate that the PM got out and the people that were insulted by it getting wind of it. And if the contents of the PM were said about me I would probably be offended and it might possibly ruin friendships, but from an objective standpoint the fault really does lie with Zergling.

    I have no problem with people talking about me behind my back as long as I never find out about it, in which case I would react. It's Zergling that has broken a trust with people who kept him in confidence and throwing more shit at each other is going resolve what he did out of spite.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

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    To have to watch this show.

  7. #197
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Can I just ask here.. as it might help my understanding.

    Do you object to other members (madmins or otherwise) holding and discussing their opinions of other members in private?

    Cos if so.. it is a tough ask if you want everyone to like everyone.. or to require that if they find a member distasteful that they can't discuss this and their opinions in private?

    Is it just that it was sent around the forum?

    Is it that it's not pleasant to find out the madmin team are not always "nice" about their charges? Much as schoolteachers, in a staffroom?
    I object to that entire attitude. I just don't have that kind of mindset that I consider private messaging someone to gossip about other people. I can't fathom what it's like to have that mentality, especially adults. I mean, why would you waste time discussing "finding a member distasteful"? I mean, wow..I just don't even know what to say to that, wouldn't you rather watch glue dry than spend time discussing people you don't like? I've seen this happen in my workplace, actually. It used to be we would all eat lunch together (besides the boss) and it seemed like the topic of conversation was always just bashing the boss. Now, I had no problem with people pointing out decisions he made they didn't agree with, if they had some alternative solution or something constructive to say, but when it was just endless ranting that could just be summed up as "the boss sucks" then what the hell is the point?

    It seems to me that a private forum for moderators should be for discussing if a member has violated forum rules, or various non-member-specific topics about the direction of the board. I can only assume that those are the usual purposes the mods here use it for. I assumed right off the bat in reading Zergling's PM that he had edited together "the worst of the mods" kinda the way MTV does the Real World or any of those "reality" shows where they try to play up only certain elements of characters. So don't think I'm sitting here thinking that every topic in the private forum is all "OMG Member X is like so stupid, did you see that post he made about fruit? ROFL, and that pic of his girlfriend! What a ho! roflollercoaster!" But it's disturbing that it's used for personal comments at all to me, but again maybe it's me. I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm just some nut who doesn't get the joy and fulfillment of writing little nasty notes about people. Because I don't get it. I get mad at people, I get annoyed at people like anyone else, and I can't say I've never made off the cuff remarks about another person, but before you post something or send an email or PM or whatever, you can stop and think about what you're sending. It's the same reason I don't understand why people spew profanities in posts, either. I mean, I know sometimes in real speaking, stuff just blurts out, but you actually sit there and consider what you're going to type and then still choose to make it vulgar? I mean, I don't understand that at all.

    Sorry I'm getting off on a tangent ramble, I tend to do that, I'm gonna stop now, hopefully I answered your question. I would hope teachers aren't saying that kind of stuff about students, but maybe I'm being naive. Thinking that ill of people makes me want to cry, though. I like to think better of people, but I guess maybe sometimes I'm denying reality.
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  8. #198
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    I have no problem with people talking about me behind my back as long as I never find out about it, in which case I would react. It's Zergling that has broken a trust with people who kept him in confidence and throwing more shit at each other is going resolve what he did out of spite.
    Yeah, see this where I am the exact opposite. I'd rather someone call me every name in the book but do it to my face than talk behind my back about me. If someone has a problem with me, tell me, let's put our cards on the table, maybe we can hash out and end up getting along, But if I find out about it through somebody else, then that's damage that's much harder to undo. To me, adults ought to be able to discuss things in an open way, and not act like high school kids sending each other notes. Yeah, I might get my feelings hurt for a bit when someone confronts me, but ultimately it's much better because I know where I stand. All the mindgames is just useless to me. I think a lot of heartache would be saved if more people were just open and honest with each other, and not always interested in keeping secrets or putting on a front. That stuff is so lame.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  9. #199
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Yeah, see this where I am the exact opposite. I'd rather someone call me every name in the book but do it to my face than talk behind my back about me.....But if I find out about it through somebody else, then that's damage that's much harder to undo. .
    That's what I mean. I rather someone spoke to my face as well, but if people are talking about me behind my back it would be better for everyone that it doesn't get back to me.

    It can't be argued that had Zergling not sent the PM that there would be a problem.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  10. #200
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Yeah, see this where I am the exact opposite. I'd rather someone call me every name in the book but do it to my face than talk behind my back about me. If someone has a problem with me, tell me, let's put our cards on the table, maybe we can hash out and end up getting along, But if I find out about it through somebody else, then that's damage that's much harder to undo. To me, adults ought to be able to discuss things in an open way, and not act like high school kids sending each other notes. Yeah, I might get my feelings hurt for a bit when someone confronts me, but ultimately it's much better because I know where I stand. All the mindgames is just useless to me. I think a lot of heartache would be saved if more people were just open and honest with each other, and not always interested in keeping secrets or putting on a front. That stuff is so lame.
    agreed on all counts. see jeff, you are indeed smart... or a better word might be wise. also agree w/ what l4u posted earlier in the thread. once you know people are willing to tear people (the good ones i'm referring to) down behind their backs it's hard to ever really look at those people again w/o some level of discomfort or distrust.

    having said all that i must confess i hate your guts jeff, you're just way too nice a guy and make the rest of us look bad :P (jk, <3)
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

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