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  1. #21
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    If I read the vibes correctly, the whole permaban-reversal thing is due in large part to the fact that the criteria changed a little while back and more granular punishments became a thing, no? That the next step from 'infraction' is no longer 'permaban'? (I love exaggerations.) That's a reasonable reason to let people back in.

    But if the reason for a reversal that the member has changed.. well, isn't the reason for a permaban typically that madmins feel like the member will never redeem himself; and that long bans serve as a long time-out during which the member can change? That, of course, should still be the criteria for a permanent boot out the door. (I'm not saying that this has necessarily ever been the reason for a reversal, merely that it probably shouldn't be.)

    That said, I think it's a non-issue. Nearly just semantics.

    The difference between "two-year ban" and "permaban" isn't a huge one, really, in terms of the outcome. In my mind at least, years-long bans may as well be considered nearly forever bans. 2+ years is a pretty long time. Others may disagree with me; they might have more time-patience than I do.

    No, the primary difference between a loooong ban and a permaban is really their connotation, what they symbolize. Long ban? Yeah, you probably got in trouble yet again for the same shit over and over and over again. Got permabanned? Yeah, you probably threatened physical harm to members or stalked them or some such a thing. Go straight to jail; do not pass Go.

    Because long bans and permabans are different mostly in what they connote, I imagine that there would be much more member pushback against a permaban reversal than a 'sentence-shortening.' Is worrying about pushback important? Beats me. Probably not, but that's not for me to judge. While a 400-page thread rabbling on about a permaban reversal is alway an eyesore (but also entertaining reading), it does tend to be forgotten at some point.

    Banned and Damned should include the unpermabanned and other decision reversals, sure, just so the membership knows what's up.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
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    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
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  2. #22
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    No, the primary difference between a loooong ban and a permaban is really their connotation, what they symbolize. Long ban? Yeah, you probably got in trouble yet again for the same shit over and over and over again. Got permabanned? Yeah, you probably threatened physical harm to members or stalked them or some such a thing. Go straight to jail; do not pass Go.
    I suppose you can look at it in terms of a burden of proof. With a long tempban, the member is automatically readmitted at the end. With a permaban reversal, the member must make a very convincing case for being allowed back.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #23
    Happy Halloween! Codex's Avatar
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    Permabanning should only be a decision made when a member becomes some sort of real-life threat to another member
    Long temp bans should be used more often; so in my opinion, I like the idea of giving users muzzles and leashes instead of giving up and abandoning them completely.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Codex View Post
    Permabanning should only be a decision made when a member becomes some sort of real-life threat to another member
    Long temp bans should be used more often; so in my opinion, I like the idea of giving users muzzles and leashes instead of giving up and abandoning them completely.
    I think if a user has become a threat to another user its already too late, it also doesnt deal with reality of people joining the forum in order to stalk people or something in that order.

    In terms of the whole "abandoning" members, well, I think that sort of depends on what you think the forum is, is it rehab or something similar or is it a public forum with rules which are clear, not subject to alteration or interpretation as the mood may take moderators etc.

    I sort of think this whole thing is a little strange, probably corresponds to the changes in ownership of the forum, moderator team etc. I remember reading back about Haight having some differences with someone and it being a decision which was executive, I thought perhaps this thread had something to do with that.

    So far as the idea that if you are contrite enough and recant all your past views, opinions and bad character it all seems kind of simpering and pathetic, I'm unsure that anyone would do that, I'd be suspiscious or sorry if they did feel inclined to and the whole "I was off my meds" or simply "I was off my head" argument is liable to used and abused.

  5. #25

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    I'll be honest with you too, that there's members who I know will exploit any apparent weakening or relaxation of rules to launch a shock and awe posting campaign in the knowledge that afterwards they could simply play a "bad day" card when enough time has passed perhaps forgetting has done its part too.

    If you check threads from long ago, I mean a real long time ago, there's some good information there which I suspect has been forgotten or is ill remembered, just because it was so long ago, about individuals wanting to be banned, people deliberately escalating and breaking rules etc.

    Also, I said this before but it was also a longer time ago, I joined this forum something like a full year before I choose to participate regularly, the reason was that the place was the kind of place that anyone joining its stay was nasty, brutish and short. Even when things appeared to have sufficiently changed in order to want to participate I remember some posters whose content didnt amount to much other than accusing others of being closet homosexuals, like banana trombones, I'm not sure people remember stuff like that because they're probably not as interested in individual and group dynamics as me but you know.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'll be honest with you too, that there's members who I know will exploit any apparent weakening or relaxation of rules to launch a shock and awe posting campaign in the knowledge that afterwards they could simply play a "bad day" card when enough time has passed perhaps forgetting has done its part too.

    If you check threads from long ago, I mean a real long time ago, there's some good information there which I suspect has been forgotten or is ill remembered, just because it was so long ago, about individuals wanting to be banned, people deliberately escalating and breaking rules etc.

    Also, I said this before but it was also a longer time ago, I joined this forum something like a full year before I choose to participate regularly, the reason was that the place was the kind of place that anyone joining its stay was nasty, brutish and short. Even when things appeared to have sufficiently changed in order to want to participate I remember some posters whose content didnt amount to much other than accusing others of being closet homosexuals, like banana trombones, I'm not sure people remember stuff like that because they're probably not as interested in individual and group dynamics as me but you know.
    Banana whatses?
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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Banana whatses?
    If you're a recent member you probably dont know him, he used to repeatedly troll me by alleging I was a closet homosexual because I'm less than enamoured with how LGBT politics are attempting to reshape public opinion and social life.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If you're a recent member you probably dont know him, he used to repeatedly troll me by alleging I was a closet homosexual because I'm less than enamoured with how LGBT politics are attempting to reshape public opinion and social life.
    My join date says April 2011. But then, I don't read every debate that goes on here, not even close.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Also, I said this before but it was also a longer time ago, I joined this forum something like a full year before I choose to participate regularly, the reason was that the place was the kind of place that anyone joining its stay was nasty, brutish and short. Even when things appeared to have sufficiently changed in order to want to participate I remember some posters whose content didnt amount to much other than accusing others of being closet homosexuals, like banana trombones, I'm not sure people remember stuff like that because they're probably not as interested in individual and group dynamics as me but you know.
    Oh, I remember.

    BananaTrombones contributed on a variety of topics and it was a shame to see him go; but the reality is that you and he didn't get along, and he eventually decided to leave in part because of that and in part for some personal reasons. So you won; appreciate that and move on. This thread topic doesn't include dredging up past grudges you might be holding against long-absent members.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    My join date says April 2011. But then, I don't read every debate that goes on here, not even close.
    That is wise.

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