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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Big brother is watching.

  2. #12
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    A couple? Other than Sim, who had their ban lifted?
    Just Sim and Swivels

    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    May we keep a log of readmitted users?
    Good suggestion. Thank you. I think we can announce in the Banned and Damned Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    xxisnotxx is one def should come back
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    i vote azure flame
    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    raptor wizard
    We are not taking nominations but feel free to reach out to them on your own and have them submit a case. Realize this will be a rare occurrence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I do not support perma ban reversal. I mean, it completely goes against the point of it.

    What I *really* do not support is am executive unilateral decision being made by the site owner. If a perma ban is going to be reversed, it must have super majority vote by the mod staff.

    This definitely needs to be done. It is actually a bigger deal than banning members. Can we get a list of all unbanned members who were once perma banned. The only one I am aware of is SimulatedWorld.

    If there are others, and they have not been announced, I want to know why?
    I appreciate your feedback . It's a fair comment to say that we should announce readmitted members. Thanks for that suggestion. We won't be providing explanations if for no other reason than the appeals process is confidential. On my involvement, I reserve the right to make decisions to do what is best for the forum. I understand that sometimes not everyone will like or agree with those decisions but so be it. I'm open to and encourage feedback anyone has about anything relating to the site so feel free to reach out if there is an action that you don't like or disagree with.

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  3. #13
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I appreciate your feedback . It's a fair comment to say that we should announce readmitted members. Thanks for that suggestion. We won't be providing explanations if for no other reason than the appeals process is confidential. On my involvement, I reserve the right to make decisions to do what is best for the forum. I understand that sometimes not everyone will like or agree with those decisions but so be it. I'm open to and encourage feedback anyone has about anything relating to the site so feel free to reach out if there is an action that you don't like or disagree with.
    I feel like some sort of note should be made. Even if it's as simple as "it's been so long, we feel they might have matured enough and want to give them a second chance". Just a blunt "so and so is back" feels rather jarring. That said I wouldn't expect a detailed explanation for the reason you mentioned.

    Just because you can and withhold a right, doesn't mean it should be exersized though. Decisions that have to me made quickly; yeah I get it that sometimes they need to be unilateral as time is a factor. The rest of the time though, I disagree. A lot of this I am speaking from as experience from being on the mod staff of the INFJforums years back. Unilateral or isolated decisions on things that have major effects can cause all kinds of strife within the member base, or even within the mod staff. When I was a mod/admin, there were several times where effectively unilateral or bilateral decisions were made and it completely blew up into a gigantic issue. Mostly because, people took issue with the fact that one individual said "I want this, and I don't need to care what anyone else has to say".

    Generally speaking, it makes sense and is totally justified that decisions can and do get made that go against the wishes of the forum members. A large part of that is they don't understand the internals of what goes on behind the curtain. It's simply the nature of the beast. However, to just make a decision without consulting the rest of staff, or even taking opinion, is just flat wrong and dictatorial. It completely defeats the purpose of having staff in the first place, and I feel it's just a terrible idea in general to not consult anyone before a major decision is made even if one already has a soldified view. Granted, if I am misunderstanding how you seek or want to go about this then please correct me. Do you at the very least, plan on seeking what the rest of the mods feel about an unbanning before you go through with it, and you are open to changing your initial view should they disagree?

    As you know, I almost never question or get bothered by what staff does except for one or two pet issues that I have that I recognize are purely personal and as such I really don't have a basis or a right to bring it up. On this though? I am being vocal as I don't just see this as a personal issues (i.e. I just don't like unbanning at all in any form; if you guys want to do it though, so be it I'll have to deal), but a major procedural problem that just goes completely against how a staff should work.

    Also, who were the individuals who have been unbanned (can they be retroactively be put in the banned/damned thread)?
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  4. #14
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Also, question. Has part of the motivation to undo permabans due to the fact that previous forum ban policy was much more black and white. Where there really was no middle ground punishment, and people just got smacked with heavy, or permenant bans after longer series of rule violations, and as such under new policy might be viewed as being bonked too much too quickly and would have survived for longer or indefinitely if they were under the current rules that are in place?
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  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Also, question. Has part of the motivation to undo permabans due to the fact that previous forum ban policy was much more black and white. Where there really was no middle ground punishment, and people just got smacked with heavy, or permenant bans after longer series of rule violations, and as such under new policy might be viewed as being bonked too much too quickly and would have survived for longer or indefinitely if they were under the current rules that are in place?
    Well, we have definitely tried to shift back towards a gentler slope in terms of what kinds of bans are handed out... They are shorter and come sooner.

    Also, again, I wouldn't read too much into this. If you reread highlander's comments, you'll note this: "The site admin and mod team will on rare occasion give certain members a second chance. " Note that word in the bold.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #16
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, we have definitely tried to shift back towards a gentler slope in terms of what kinds of bans are handed out... They are shorter and come sooner.

    Also, again, I wouldn't read too much into this. If you reread highlander's comments, you'll note this: "The site admin and mod team will on rare occasion give certain members a second chance. " Note that word in the bold.
    It's a change I very much welcome and it seems to been working very swimmingly and been quite effective at dealing with issues, and preserving people here who otherwise might have been shipped off too soon or too long.

    Ok. I was trying to understand what the rationale was behind deciding to impart this policy; it was the only line of reasoning I could think of. Also, to me rare to means really not often, but with how I had it set in my head rare meant like maybe 2-3 per year. Which to me, is not what I'd catagorize as rare. However bolding the word would impart what I'd interpret as "very or extremely rare" which would be one per year or less. Sorry for being nitpicky.
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  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Also, question. Has part of the motivation to undo permabans due to the fact that previous forum ban policy was much more black and white. Where there really was no middle ground punishment, and people just got smacked with heavy, or permenant bans after longer series of rule violations, and as such under new policy might be viewed as being bonked too much too quickly and would have survived for longer or indefinitely if they were under the current rules that are in place?
    That is an insightful question. I'm speaking for myself but the answer to your question from my perspective is absolutely yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Just because you can and withhold a right, doesn't mean it should be exersized though. Decisions that have to me made quickly; yeah I get it that sometimes they need to be unilateral as time is a factor. The rest of the time though, I disagree. A lot of this I am speaking from as experience from being on the mod staff of the INFJforums years back. Unilateral or isolated decisions on things that have major effects can cause all kinds of strife within the member base, or even within the mod staff. When I was a mod/admin, there were several times where effectively unilateral or bilateral decisions were made and it completely blew up into a gigantic issue. Mostly because, people took issue with the fact that one individual said "I want this, and I don't need to care what anyone else has to say".

    Generally speaking, it makes sense and is totally justified that decisions can and do get made that go against the wishes of the forum members. A large part of that is they don't understand the internals of what goes on behind the curtain. It's simply the nature of the beast. However, to just make a decision without consulting the rest of staff, or even taking opinion, is just flat wrong and dictatorial. It completely defeats the purpose of having staff in the first place, and I feel it's just a terrible idea in general to not consult anyone before a major decision is made even if one already has a soldified view. Granted, if I am misunderstanding how you seek or want to go about this then please correct me. Do you at the very least, plan on seeking what the rest of the mods feel about an unbanning before you go through with it, and you are open to changing your initial view should they disagree?
    I agree with you that those things can be a concern. The moderation team on the site is very collaborative as a whole and not afraid of challenging each other (including me). We have a lot of people with very good experience and solid judgment.

    For the record, Swivels was a consensus decision. I made the decision to re-admit @simulatedworld. The reason in that case was the potential for contribution to the site and proven track record of contributing here and elsewhere.

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  8. #18
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That is an insightful question. I'm speaking for myself but the answer to your question from my perspective is absolutely yes.

    I agree with you that those things can be a concern. The moderation team on the site is very collaborative as a whole and not afraid of challenging each other (including me). We have a lot of people with very good experience and solid judgment.

    For the record, Swivels was a consensus decision. I made the decision to re-admit simulatedworld. The reason in that case was the potential for contribution to the site and proven track record of contributing here and elsewhere.
    I was going to hit the like button, but it seems to be missing from this thread (maybe that's intentional for this subforum). Either way, thanks. As a side note, it's encouraging to see that I can trust my intuition more than I give it credit; if I wasn't stressed/upset I likely wouldn't have voiced that thought. Anyway, I actually quite respect that line of reasoning and completely understand where you're coming from with it. This quells almost all of my concerns.
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  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Also, again, I wouldn't read too much into this. If you reread highlander's comments, you'll note this: "The site admin and mod team will on rare occasion give certain members a second chance. " Note that word in the bold.
    A careful reading of the Rules will find several references to mod discretion, using our best judgment, taking atypical actions when necessary, etc. This clarification of the permaban policy merely points out that permabans are no exception to this. As Jennifer points out, however, the operative expression is "rare".

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I agree with you that those things can be a concern. The moderation team on the site is very collaborative as a whole and not afraid of challenging each other (including me). We have a lot of people with very good experience and solid judgment.
    Speaking for myself, I have the utmost respect for Highlander and the other mods, which means I offer my unvarnished opinion and best judgment, every time. I don't think it's spilling too many secrets to say there are no "yes-men" (or women) in the modbox. By listening to each other's different perspectives, we arrive at decisions that are more sound than what any one or two of us would come up with alone. It really is a team/consensus effort.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #20
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post


    My first video reply post.
    Wait although i posted this it doesn't mean i this is what i want.

    Certain actions deserve to get perma banned.

    But mostly i like long temp bans.
    .

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