User Tag List

12311 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 219

  1. #1
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default Important Announcement re: Forum FAQ

    Per recent discussions both inside the modbox and on the forum, it has become apparent that levels of hostility are dampening civil discourse. Effective immediately, as described below, we will be taking action to curtail this trend. The FAQ is in the process of revision, but consider this announcement your notice of some (but not all) of the changes ahead of them being officially codified. We expect a revised FAQ to be published by Sunday November 10th. We're incorporating mod/admin observation plus member feedback from many recent threads, so the details are forthcoming.

    In the meantime, few guidelines:

    • This is not a free-speech playground. The first amendment of the US Constitution (as this is a US-based site) protects you from being punished by the government for speaking your mind. We honor your first amendment rights by promising not to report you to the authorities for calling another member a fuckface. But that doesn't mean we're going to let you call another member a fuckface. This is and has always been a moderated forum. Hostility is not the tone we want to maintain here.
    • Disagree with the argument, but avoid insults. Insults can result in an infraction, whether one insults a person directly or indirectly. Insults are not limited to namecalling or profanity. An insult is defined as speaking or treating with disrespect or scornful abuse. Examples of communication that is insulting includes the following: abuse, disparage, discredit, belittle, libel, slander, malign, defame, denigrate, treat with contempt, cast aspersions on, call someone names, put someone down, affront or humiliate. If you are on the "borderline" between insult and reasoned argument, you're probably being insulting and are risking warnings, infractions or a possible ban.
    • Constant backbiting and/or aggressively confrontational posting contributes to a hostile environment. A hostile environment keeps other, less reactive people from feeling free to speak THEIR minds. We want to hear from them, too, not just the members with the most volatile personalities.
    • We will look not only at individual posts but also the pattern of posting. Specifically, it will be considered hostile behavior if an individual frequently makes posts which exhibit a pattern of low level insults, harassing behavior, attacking, bullying or trolling.
    • We will use the rules as a guideline but will also be using our judgment to determine when the hostility has become unacceptable. We realize that this will seem unfairly subjective to some but we feel that it is necessary given the complexities of human interaction. If you feel that you are being treated unfairly, you can always contact us to discuss the matter.



    We will be making liberal use of the warning system to let people know when they're treading the line during a transitional period, which will occur for 30 days after the date of this note. Warnings do not carry the same weight as infractions, so please don't feel persecuted if you get a warning. We're all learning together. Hostility may also result in having posts moved to the Graveyard. For members who repeatedly have posts moved from a main forum thread to the Graveyard, thread bannings will be the next step. More frequent shorter temp bans or daily posting limits will also be considered on a case-by-case basis.

    Thanks to all who have offered feedback. Please continue to do so. Please report posts that are problematic, especially if you have been hesitant to do so in the past. Sometimes, this is the only way we know about an issue. We may or may not consult with you about the content of your report but we read and discuss each and every one that comes in.

    Please also note that since the FAQ is under construction, all of this is in flux and subject to revision before the final version of the FAQ goes live. Thanks to all for contributing to the discussions recently, and I look forward to discussing interesting content with you all once we're through this most recent growing pain.
    Likes Nørrsken liked this post

  2. #2
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    to be honest - this tells me very little - there's so much leeway in the above that possible interpretations of the above range from super-polite orwellian to the PerC-style "report buzzer" policing game or to like now but with more open discussions, all hanging on the extent to which users are willing to trust the mods to practice common sense in line with their own.

    what are some of the cases where you were thinking "we should have rules to prevent that in the future"? can you give examples of notable past discussions or instances that you would have treated differently? or at least some hypotheticals if you don't want to go into specifics?

  3. #3
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Thank you!
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Awesome! Thanks, Ivy.

    Is it perhaps a good idea to have a mod run a seperate Q&A thread during the transition period where members can ask questions and suggest hypothetical situations in order to get a feel for how this will be implemented? (I know my NeSi would like some datapoints to see the future pattern, for instance)
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #5
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    to be honest - this tells me very little - there's so much leeway in the above that possible interpretations of the above range from super-polite orwellian to the PerC-style "report buzzer" policing game or to like now but with more open discussions, all hanging on the extent to which users are willing to trust the mods to practice common sense in line with their own.

    what are some of the cases where you were thinking "we should have rules to prevent that in the future"? can you give examples of notable past discussions or instances that you would have treated differently? or at least some hypotheticals if you don't want to go into specifics?

    Good question. I can't really tell if this is going to be good or bad. Could go either way. I don't think insults are really necessary. But occasionally, I see people give terrible ideas or use flawed logic. Perhaps it's immature, but I'd like to be able to say so, all the more so if someone is convinced of their rightness. Now, saying stuff like "oh, you should have been aborted"' is too much, and probably doesn't need to be here. Hell, some people consider dissenting opinions to be an insult.

    My primary concern about the FAQ is that this will become too much work and that there will be a "the customer is always right" mentality. I can do that, but it's not particularly enjoyable in many circumstances. I think @ voiced this concern as well.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    You're not even gonna consider implementing the revolutionary FÜRGIVENESS™ program, are you?

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    795

    Default

    This better not turn into a wannabe kumbaya-singing feeler-biased playground. Meaty discussions better still be possible without interruption or punishment. Then again, I can always go somewhere else.

  8. #8
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,108

    Default

    I think there has to be that much leeway or else we have what we have had in the past - people baiting, or using indirect insults so that they're following the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it.

  9. #9
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
    Guest

    Default

    I don't even know what all the fuss is about.

  10. #10
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    to be honest - this tells me very little - there's so much leeway in the above that possible interpretations of the above range from super-polite orwellian to the PerC-style "report buzzer" policing game or to like now but with more open discussions, all hanging on the extent to which users are willing to trust the mods to practice common sense in line with their own.

    what are some of the cases where you were thinking "we should have rules to prevent that in the future"? can you give examples of notable past discussions or instances that you would have treated differently? or at least some hypotheticals if you don't want to go into specifics?
    During the transition period, we'll be issuing warnings. There is necessarily a subjective aspect to these things, so the warnings should give you a feel for where the line is, probably far more clearly than any list of potential examples. If you don't get any warnings, then you likely aren't anywhere close to violating the forum rules/guidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Good question. I can't really tell if this is going to be good or bad. Could go either way. I don't think insults are really necessary. But occasionally, I see people give terrible ideas or use flawed logic. Perhaps it's immature, but I'd like to be able to say so, all the more so if someone is convinced of their rightness. Now, saying stuff like "oh, you should have been aborted"' is too much, and probably doesn't need to be here. Hell, some people consider dissenting opinions to be an insult.

    My primary concern about the FAQ is that this will become too much work and that there will be a "the customer is always right" mentality. I can do that, but it's not particularly enjoyable in many circumstances. I think @ voiced this concern as well.
    For the record, we moderators have been in 100% agreement that people just disagreeing about something, even disagreeing "passionately" about something, is not grounds to warn/infract/ban. The tricky part has been the line between really obvious flaming/abuse (e.g., name-calling) and the not-so-obvious more indirect varieties - was it "really" an insult or otherwise a personal ad hominem attack, or just a harsh way of saying things?

    Quote Originally Posted by CapLawyer View Post
    This better not turn into a wannabe kumbaya-singing feeler-biased playground. Meaty discussions better still be possible without interruption or punishment. Then again, I can always go somewhere else.
    We moderators don't want kumbaya land, either. We're trying to avoid flame-war land: where the meaty discussion devolves into two or three people firing snide remarks back and forth and those who might want a real discussion just ignore the thread. Both extremes stymie discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think there has to be that much leeway or else we have what we have had in the past - people baiting, or using indirect insults so that they're following the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it.
    Fidelia is correct, here. It's the baiting and indirect insults that were not getting enforced, and it's clear that those are forerunners to flame wars. No individual post is "that bad", but in aggregate they can ruin a thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    I don't even know what all the fuss is about.
    Count yourself blessed, and enjoy the forum.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

Similar Threads

  1. SUPER IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
    By yama in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-09-2016, 11:00 PM
  2. IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - Linking Posts
    By highlander in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-15-2015, 10:12 PM
  3. IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
    By Ivy in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 170
    Last Post: 04-07-2015, 12:48 PM
  4. Forum Announcement
    By MacGuffin in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 118
    Last Post: 05-21-2010, 06:46 PM
  5. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-04-2009, 07:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO