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  1. #181
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Where did you get this interpretation? Something from this thread? Other?*

    Curious here, simply because that's not my interpretation and I'm not overly snarky except on rare occasion, so am unlikely find out where the mods are drying the line.

    *I guess if you received a warning, you may not want to share that info... so understood.
    Aren't snideness and biting sarcasm part of the 'thou shalt not' list?

    Nah, no warnings or infractions about snark. Evisceration, yes.

  2. #182
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Aren't snideness and biting sarcasm part of the 'thou shalt not' list?

    Nah, no warnings or infractions about snark. Evisceration, yes.
    Those things don't inherently add to hostility, so I hope not. At least they should be okay as long as they aren't being used as a tool for trolling, or to harass members across a variety of topics.

    Hopefully if I'm wrong I'll either be corrected or properly eviscerated.

  3. #183
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Snark is fine. Sarcasm is fine. The main point of the FAQ revision is to account for all of the hostility that deliberately sidestepped the forum rules as we had been interpreting them. The "rules-abiding" hostility has the same effects as the obvious, direct hostility, e.g., long clusterf-ck tangents to threads with members attacking each other without arguing much in the way of content. If your snarking and sniping and sarcasm and teasing is all in good fun, it'll be obvious from the trajectory of the thread. If it isn't, that will also be obvious from the trajectory of the thread.

    This new policy isn't going to have rules such as "saying 'jerk' is OK, but saying 'asshole' isn't OK." That really doesn't help anyone, and sometimes saying "jerk" or "asshole" is completely in context and not intended to start a fight. The judgment is going to be more subjective, with the mods keeping an eye on how problematic threads tend to evolve.

    Seriously, it isn't that hard to figure out: if you're having a discussion, however vociferous, you're probably OK. If instead you're just coming up with clever wordplays to call each other stupid, and more especially if it's spiraling out of control, the mods might require a few words with you.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #184
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Okay I get it. No snark. Y'all take the fun out of life.
    FWIW I've always found you funny as opposed to hostile, but if others disagree I guess it's their business.

  5. #185
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    @uumlau - thanks for the clarification. Pretty much what I thought, but I heard enough "I can't make jokes or be sarcastic anymore" comments, and couldn't help but to wonder if I'm just not seeing where the line is drawn.

  6. #186
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    this is probably in itself a good example of where the lines get blurry, but the collective long term value might be worth the risk:
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The judgment is going to be more subjective, with the mods keeping an eye on how problematic threads tend to evolve.

    Seriously, it isn't that hard to figure out: if you're having a discussion, however vociferous, you're probably OK. If instead you're just coming up with clever wordplays to call each other stupid, and more especially if it's spiraling out of control, the mods might require a few words with you.
    i'll be honest here - I do not trust you to pass reasonable judgement in an area of subjective leeway concerning how you would interpret what someone "is doing" (through whatever narration of what you believe they are "obviously" attempting / intending / conspiring to do and is thus "objectively" doing).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think almost everybody has their own perception/definition of what constitutes trolling. It is an extremely vague term that IME often gets used to mean "I don't like this person and everything they do annoys me so I'm just going to call it all trolling."
    yes, people do that when they have subjective leeway...

    FYI

  7. #187
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'll be honest here - I do not trust you to pass reasonable judgement in an area of subjective leeway concerning how you would interpret what someone "is doing" (through whatever narration of what you believe they are "obviously" attempting / intending / conspiring to do and is thus "objectively" doing).
    Is it that hard to engage in an argument without insulting the other party?

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  8. #188
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Is it that hard to engage in an argument without insulting the other party?
    Why do you see that as an insult? It sounds like an honest viewpoint of distrust in the subjective judgement of another individual. I don't think offense was meant.

  9. #189
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Is it that hard to engage in an argument without insulting the other party?
    I may have been seeing this post in the wrong context. If so, please ignore me. Apologies.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Is it that hard to engage in an argument without insulting the other party?
    no, most of the time it isn't, but that is like answering a possible fault in trial proceedings or a claim of a bad judge by justifying how easy it is to not get accused or get called to a trial in the first place - most people probably don't go on trial in the first place, but the trust in the legal system requires trusting what happens once a trial starts. you don't really get called to judge most of the posts, the posts that come into question are specifically the ones where you do need to make a judgement call.

    mind you, i realize their are similarity lines between my mistrust of uumlau and marm's prior public beef with you, and to that extent i accept that my counter argument there also stands against my own reasoning here, and that this can be explained as a bias developed against a mod as a poster resulting in a negative opinion of them as a mod (perhaps even more so given that i never interacted with him/her as a mod, and the fact i still need to use him/her in reference probably really puts the amount of information i have on him/her in question)...

    but -while taking that into account - a larger point still stands: given enough subjective leeway, the social contract no longer depends on trusting the merit inherent to the contract, it depends on trusting the authority enforcing it.

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