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  1. #111
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That makes a lot of sense but I sort of think you're posting in the spirit of the devils beatitudes when you post that.
    Am I posting in the spirit of the devil's beatitudes?

    It's true I draw attention to nasty side of life. But it seems to me that hiding the nasty side is worse.

    The devil of course is a great liar and hides the nastiness until we fall into it; the devil hides corruption and abuse and blames the victims.

    And it seems to me that only by revealing corruption and abuse can we return to the truth, and comfort and nourish the victims.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Am I posting in the spirit of the devil's beatitudes?

    It's true I draw attention to nasty side of life. But it seems to me that hiding the nasty side is worse.

    The devil of course is a great liar and hides the nastiness until we fall into it; the devil hides corruption and abuse and blames the victims.

    And it seems to me that only by revealing corruption and abuse can we return to the truth, and comfort and nourish the victims.
    The devil's beatitudes lists a load of corruptions or evils but at the finish the final line says that "and the man who reads this and thinks it all applies to someone else, and not himself, I have him already" or something along those lines.

    It's folkish idea which I think originated in Ireland, we've a lot of stories about the devil, but I dont know if it did.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    "and the man who reads this and thinks it all applies to someone else, and not himself, I have him already"
    I do find it easier to criticise others than to criticise myself, that is in part why I am here, so I can subject myself to your criticism.

  4. #114
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I do find it easier to criticise others than to criticise myself, that is in part why I am here, so I can subject myself to your criticism.
    Fascinating, for I find it endlessly easier to criticise myself. Although I am not above criticism of others, I am rarely serious when I do so.

    Although criticism of yourself is a start, it's understanding how to do so in the heat of a moment.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Fascinating, for I find it endlessly easier to criticise myself. Although I am not above criticism of others, although I am rarely serious when I do so.
    If your criticism of yourself is 'endless', then it is plainly compulsive.

    And if your self criticism is 'endless', then it is plainly failing to come to grips with your life issues.

    So rather than your self criticism based on evidence and coming from your rational ego, your 'endless' self criticism is likely coming from your superego and is not subject to evidence and reason.

    In other words, you are on a treadmill driven by your irrational superego.

    So the only important question is: how to get off the treadmill?

  6. #116
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    So the only important question is: how to get off the treadmill?
    Flip your superego the bird.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Flip your superego the bird.
    If only it were that easy.

    If you think it is that easy, you have not ever engaged your superego in rational dialogue.

    So it is likely you haven't even made a start at growing up.

  8. #118
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    If only it were that easy.
    .
    Oh, it definitely isn't. I'm with you there.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  9. #119
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    So the only important question is: how to get off the treadmill?
    Exactly.

    Of course at the same time it's endless not because of retreading ground, but because new information arises which requires more criticism.

    No one ever stays at a singular state.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It was the premise for an entire thread, Highlander, so you need to take a little more care with it.

    If the premise was SO terrible, then why let the thread remain at all? And if another conversation began that you do think is worth saving, then just ditch the OP altogether / pull out the parts worth reading and toss the offending post altogether.

    Let's face it, as a mod you've made the decision to edit a thread and are now taking words OUT of people's mouths. You don't get to have cold feet at that point; let's just go for some kind of edit that still provides sense to the discussion line, if you plan to keep one.
    Common sense, ftw!

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    That's one of the lines that we're all learning as mods.

    Where does 'discussion about a group' cross into 'hatred of that group'? And even the other way around--that is, what if a 'hatred' comment has led into meaningful discussion?

    There were at least three or four mods involved in discussing that instance. We'd considered GYing the thing. But by the point we got to that thread, there was meaningful discussion that we didn't want to shut down. We also don't want to shut down any very insightful thread that happens to tangentially have some slight slur. We removed the part that we thought was clear 'hate speech,' but then removal naturally raises questions of what was removed, whether context was lost, and so on.

    I use that instance as an example -- we want to try isolate 'hate speech' from 'discussion of groups,' so as not to shut down meaningful discussion. We're talking internally about how generally to do so and how to codify it in the FAQ, and we'd welcome input in this thread, too.


    Another hypothetical -- an editorial newspaper clipping from the 20s stating that a KKK member had given a talk about the good deeds that the Klan had done, and from the author's POV the member gave a good talk. That's a thing that happened. It shouldn't be off the table.
    I don't understand why that would be off the table.

    It seems self evident to me.
    Discussing actual events. vs
    Advocating hateful ideologies.

    Anyway, it's good to know you guys are now giving this stuff serious thought.
    More common sense. European focus but lots of helpful info and discussion: Starting points for combatting hate speech online.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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