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  1. #281
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I think one thing's become clear to me at least, through all this. Haight needs to put his J hat on and start laying down some policies.
    The Madmin staff here at MBTIc have already done what you are asking. With that said, read the "FAQ" link.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    It's kinda felt like I've come into a place that didn't seem to have any particular rules in place, just a sorta non-specific set of unspoken rules that it was assumed everyone was hip to. But this whole episode has made me rather aware that there is really no one set of even unspoken rules, that everyone agrees on. But there are different groups who have a common set of expectations and preferences which they believe are the official rules, and in the absence of any clear leadership 'ruling', so to speak, on these things, it's just snipe city.
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I personally really appreciate this place existing and I know I owe it all to Haight and the admins and mods (and possibly the general intolerance of INTPc, ironically), but especially Haight. I'm somewhat unusual for an ENTP in having learned a certain level of respect for people in authority, but I don't think Haight's been really claiming the authority that nobody on here would deny is his. If he had, then he could've nipped a few things in the bud in a way that yes, some might have had a problem with, but in the end they'd just have to suck it up, cos he's the boss, right?
    That idea sucks. Is a community about who ownes the dirt? Or, is it about the people walking on the dirt and what they think, want and feel.

    I'm going with the latter on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I want to know Haight, what is your intention for this board? What do you hope to achieve with it? Why do you pay the bills for this? Would you like others to contribute? Would you provide a way for them to do so?
    a/ To create a site for non-INTPs to act like non-INTPs. And, to create a site for INTPs that like to be around other non-INTPs (I wish I had a dollar for every time I've written about this). If you read around INTPc and here, you'll understand more about what happened.
    b/ Peace.
    c/ Because they are in my name and I always pay my bills!?
    d/ Quality posts, time, and happiness.
    e/ I already have.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I say that because I think it's only fair to say that if other people want a say in how the place is run, they ought to perhaps consider that, otherwise it's like a bunch of spoilt teenagers moaning about their mom cooking something they don't like for dinner, even though they owe their existence to her ffs and do nothing in return. Just a thought.
    You hate democracy. . . don't you.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Though it pains me to use the phrase 'mission statement', I can't help but think that some people might feel a lot better if they could have a clear thing, straight from the horse's mouth as it were, saying what's encouraged, what's frowned upon, what's a total no-no, and y'know, just generally, a bit of Te from you wouldn't hurt around here...
    Again, read the FAQ page.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I don't mean to sound as though I'm criticizing you Haight, cos I'm not really, more just sorta suggesting a possible solution to a climate in which one can get a sense of being buffeted around by the various and conflicting opinions of the different members, mods and admins, and nobody's sure which bits are their personal opinions and which are actually officially sorta sanctioned by the management.
    I don't see the type of confusing you are alluding to. And I appreciate suggestions and criticisms.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I for one really have no idea where I stand and how my behaviour is viewed by the owners, how near or far I am from the ban bin in reality, or why - just a general awareness that some people, possibly some in 'authority' aren't too happy with me; a vague sense of not being particularly liked by the old guard but tolerated nonetheless. But i've no idea how to modify my behaviour to rectify the situation, as whatever I've done to that end so far doesn't seem to have lessened that feeling of the precariousness of my acceptance here. That's what I meant about feeling like I'm being told off for breaking rules that seemed to have been made up on the spot, and like the management just can't be pleased. Maybe some others have a similar feeling, and would appreciate some kind of clear scale or statement they could measure themselves against to be able to get a sense of how to be a 'better' member.
    Again, read the FAQ page.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I don't think it's possible to reach total consensus, with everyone being so different. But I do think that personally, I've no problem with accepting that Haight is the big daddy and what he says goes. I wouldn't argue with it and I'd abide by it to the best of my ability, even if there were parts I didn't like. I might subvert and needle the mods and admins now and again, but only in as much as I knew wasn't actually violating Haight's rules. Y'know, like a peasant can poke fun at the baron sometimes without his loyalty to the king being questioned?
    Again, you hate democracy don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    (and if I now go browsing around and find a page that clearly states rules and mission statements on it, I shall go sit in a corner and quietly commit sepuku, nnnkay? )
    Click here
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #282
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    The Madmin staff here at MBTIc have already done what you are asking. With that said, read the "FAQ" link.
    ....
    Okay, well to prevent this from becoming a cliquish and fluffy conversation I'll PM my reply.

    I should have taken more time to frame that previous post properly and edit it better, but like I said, I was just getting it off my chest and sounding it out.

    I'm still confused though. And yes I do hate democracy. Doesn't mesh well with my medieval mindset.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #283
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm slightly embarassed to admit that, while I have read the FAQ more than once, I didn't quite understand everything in it- some wording was rather vague- for instance, what is a "quality post" and why are some trolls still wandering about making people miserable?

    I try and be a good member! I really do! I'd just like to understand things a bit better I guess... ... I guess that I need something closer to the Declaration of the Rights of Man than the Constitution! (sorry- my poli sci-ness coming out!)

    And this whole situation is depressing me WAY too much! I came here for a happy distraction from every day life and anymore it seems as though conflict is creeping in here too

    (and look what happened people! the poor ESTP read instructions!!! Yes she did! )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #284
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm slightly embarassed to admit that, while I have read the FAQ more than once, I didn't quite understand everything in it- some wording was rather vague- for instance, what is a "quality post" and why are some trolls still wandering about making people miserable?

    I try and be a good member! I really do! I'd just like to understand things a bit better I guess... ... I guess that I need something closer to the Declaration of the Rights of Man than the Constitution! (sorry- my poli sci-ness coming out!)

    And this whole situation is depressing me WAY too much! I came here for a happy distraction from every day life and anymore it seems as though conflict is creeping in here too
    Don't be depressed! Girls night out ok? Drinks are on me! Anyone else wanna join us?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #285
    Senior Member Sandy's Avatar
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    to Jen, Jennifer and Sub... but don't worry; like I said, I'm use to it.

    What happens on forums like this happens a lot to me IRL. I know I am a thread killer and unless I ask questions (which is rare), and stand in front of people and say something really mind-blowing, I don't expect people to react to what I say, because it's not like I am expecting anything. I just comment away when the feeling hits.

    If I was expecting a reaction, than I guess it would get to me.
    -Sandy
    I - 75% N - 55% F - 55% P - 61%
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    There is love... in the red letters
    There is truth... in the red letters

  6. #286
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm slightly embarassed to admit that, while I have read the FAQ more than once, I didn't quite understand everything in it- some wording was rather vague- for instance, what is a "quality post" and why are some trolls still wandering about making people miserable?
    It's not just you... it was a little vague, but that's mainly because they don't want to put too many restrictions on what can be posted, and make it so that you have examine the rules before doing anything... that would be restrictive. Basically, they want the rules to be such that people who cause trouble deliberately get into trouble, but that people who are saying controversial things or making an occasional crack don't. I actually think that's better in some ways, it allows discussion to take place more openly.
    I try and be a good member! I really do! I'd just like to understand things a bit better I guess... ... I guess that I need something closer to the Declaration of the Rights of Man than the Constitution! (sorry- my poli sci-ness coming out!)
    Why do you think you're not a good member? You say a lot of interesting things... and you posted accurate and interesting information about the constitution on that thread.
    And this whole situation is depressing me WAY too much! I came here for a happy distraction from every day life and anymore it seems as though conflict is creeping in here too
    Oh... I'm sorry to hear that's driving you off.
    (and look what happened people! the poor ESTP read instructions!!! Yes she did! )
    That's pretty sad... an ESTP reading instructions. Wow, you must be depressed. Feel better soon, okay?

  7. #287
    Senior Member Nonpareil's Avatar
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    It's been a crazy weekend for me and I will admit I haven't read all the recent posts on this thread but I felt compelled to reply to the post that quoted me and some others I read after that. I don't want to be pointing any fingers because I don't believe it is necessary in this thread. I'm just trying to say what I see.

    Apparently my language skills suck because I see people misinterpreting my words. It's funny, some people seem to know what I'm saying since I've been getting some pm/rep points from my posts here. I'm not looking for points and I tried to explain to you all why I like it here and why I don't. It seems that either way, my actual thoughts and feeling seem to be misread and misunderstood. I'll try to be clearer but please bear with me, I'm still learning.

    I'm not saying it's bad to let people know through the rep system that you like their post or you don't. I'm not saying we should get rid of the system. What I am saying is what I see since this system has come into place (test or not). It seems like there are people who refuse to admit that there is a change in tone and attitude of this place. It seems like there are people who either justify the rep system and those who don't. We have people who like it, people who hate it and people in-between. There has been a lot of talk about it and I think most of you will agree with that. Since the rep system has been added as a test, people has been divided. You may or may not choose to see it but it is happening. We have people with tons or rep points, people with negative or little rep points, we have people feeling like they are singled out, people who are defending themselves or others, people who are pointing fingers, people who feel like leaving, people who has been quite troubled from the whole thing, people who try to stay out of it but can't, people who feel ignored, etc. We all fit in one or more of those groups and each group has felt the need to justify their actions. Whether you want to admit it or not, it's here.

    You can see this in the posts/replys to the two threads on the rep system, and you even see it outside of those threads. People has gotten defensive, feelings are hurt and there is a sudden large need for people to justify why they are here. Fingers are being pointed at various people or supposed "groups/cliques" and there is a lot of unrest with the people here on MBTIc. You can say you don't see it but read the posts here on the rep system. Most of them consist of people accusing someone of something, people saying they feel ignored/left out/hurt/frustrated, and everyone has something to say about someone or something. Really, there aren't many neutral posts on these two rep threads that talk about the system alone. There are accusations of too much fluff, too little serious threads, cliques, and people are being singled out! We are arguing about a system, and it has gotten very personal. You can't ignore or deny that feelings are hurt and people has indeed gotten quite nasty with each other. We are getting divided and I'm not blaming the rep system itself but more the apparent deep-down issues with such a system that the rep system seemed to have caused to seep out of all of us (in some form or another).

    There is much unrest in the forum since this system came, some positive but I would say is net negative. Why? Well, from what I see in the rep threads is a lot of people defending themselves or others and people critisizing others. There is blame on people for making a big deal of such a small thing coming into play, there is blame for this and that. This is happening and all because of a system? Is it necessary?

    That is what I see and I know others see/feel it too. We were all getting along just fine before this. Yes, we did have some heated discussions, some "fluff", some serious conversations, some derailment of threads, etc. We faught, we laughed, we cried - but it was united, with less animosity. Like some of you said, if we didn't like a thread, we didn't read it, we all did our own thing and respected that others did too. We didn't point fingers at people, we didn't have to justify ourselves. We could be ourselves and now some of us feel like we want to leave (because we aren't welcomed or whatnot) and we have to defend our purpose for being here. That is sad to me and that is why I have to say what I say. I don't know if we are ignoring others emotions but emotions are high right now and I have only noticed such conflict since the rep system came.

    I hope you understand what I'm saying...that is all....Thank you!
    Sorry for any typos, spelling or grammer errors but I'm a bit preoccupied planning my wedding.
    Or if you want to read more about me and help me gain more insight to your world (I do need more experiences in life), feel free to skim through my blog.

  8. #288
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Since the rep system has been added as a test, people has been divided. You may or may not choose to see it but it is happening. We have people with tons or rep points, people with negative or little rep points, we have people feeling like they are singled out, people who are defending themselves or others, people who are pointing fingers, people who feel like leaving, people who has been quite troubled from the whole thing, people who try to stay out of it but can't, people who feel ignored, etc. We all fit in one or more of those groups and each group has felt the need to justify their actions. Whether you want to admit it or not, it's here.
    I agree completely. But I also see a lot of love here, too. I see a lot of empathy and reaching-out.

    I think the reputation system has had a good run, overall. I think we all agree that popularity contests aren't cool, and that the rep system does encourage popularity contests, but another aspect of this system is undeniable good, in my opinion. Another aspect is that we have made use of an easier way to pat each other on the back. The fluff posting increased because that's what was most rewarded, but the fluff posting also upped the level of love and camaraderie for all who threw themselves into it.

    If the system must go away for a time, I'd like to see it come back someday, for a time. Maybe we could go through alternating periods of having the rep system and not. Without the rep system, the forum does seem more serious and slow, and with it, the forum seems more boisterous, fun and lively. But we're all still the same people, with the same insights, either way. We're all just as intelligent, fun and wonderful. Rep system or not, I think this forum has nothing to worry about, as long as intelligent, unique, wonderful people such as you guys continue to participate.

    I think as Fineline and others pointed out, fluff, camaraderie, and serious discussion all play an integral role in a good forum. I think it's healthy for a forum to go through alternating periods of mostly fluff and camaraderie and mostly serious, deep discussion. You have to have both to keep a forum alive and keep people enjoying the place.

    For the record, Sandy, you are SUCH a doll, and so are you, Whatever. I love you guys! Everyone who's posted in this thread is great.

  9. #289
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonpareil View Post
    I'm not saying it's bad to let people know through the rep system that you like their post or you don't. I'm not saying we should get rid of the system. What I am saying is what I see since this system has come into place (test or not). It seems like there are people who refuse to admit that there is a change in tone and attitude of this place. It seems like there are people who either justify the rep system and those who don't. We have people who like it, people who hate it and people in-between. There has been a lot of talk about it and I think most of you will agree with that. Since the rep system has been added as a test, people has been divided. You may or may not choose to see it but it is happening. We have people with tons or rep points, people with negative or little rep points, we have people feeling like they are singled out, people who are defending themselves or others, people who are pointing fingers, people who feel like leaving, people who has been quite troubled from the whole thing, people who try to stay out of it but can't, people who feel ignored, etc. We all fit in one or more of those groups and each group has felt the need to justify their actions. Whether you want to admit it or not, it's here.
    Nonpareil (I'm soo going to have to look that up now, I'm sure it's an interesting word),

    Do you not think that this whole rep system has been blown out of all proportion? Yes people have had a reaction to it but as far as I see most of it is knee jerk and has been reinforced through conspiracy theory and gossip. I have discussed the problem with Sir Aelan addressing the concept of those with rep points being those who give rep points and perhaps using it in error as a quick PM system. The more they get, the more they give and yes this does produce a system where those with large amounts of rep points are the controllers of who has rep points and who does not (apart from Mav who's gone counter to the whole system). Yes that's a flaw but realistically at the end of the day does anyone use the rep system as anything but a nice new toy? Does it reflect their reputation? Well yes it does, it represents how well liked a poster is and no necessarily how insightful they are.

    On an aside I've received more reputation points for my serious posts than for fluff..well aside from having what turned out to be a desirable avatar that is.
    ____________________________

    In general I am of the opinion that this whole reputation thing is just a good chatting point. It's getting like the little chat's in the WI or a gang of blokes chatting like old women (sorry but all the chatting analogies tend to be female orientated).

    Perhaps if people are going to get this riled about some green marks under their name then it should be removed. I think it would be a shame as the system does add the facility to say "well done" without having to post it and also I quite like my little wall of nice things that people have said. It's a nice boost to go to my CP and see all those nice comments. Being a person who operates on positive feedback those comments encourage me to return each day and interact with those here.

    Quote Originally Posted by htb
    It is odd, though not unforeseen. A week or so ago I made a gentleman's bet that a change like this -- a sort of competition, no less -- would put a few noses out of joint. The impression of a problem is a) many times larger than one within real social circumstances, and b) becoming distended by the insistence that this group is somewhere near a crisis. It seems more likely that conflict will be borne from conjecture or aspersions about perceived conflict.

    Having taken holidays from the forum for weeks at a time, I would argue, from a certain disjuncture, that moods and levels of interest here oscillate. Posters come and go, their presence or absence resulting in a different dynamic.

    As this is simply one more cycle, I would request the growing mob be dispersed.
    Precisely.

    There is no real need for a multi page essay where everyone hastily devours every last morsel of reaction to this new horror on a forum. There is no real need for anyone to be concerned about the presence or absence of feedback only to appreciate the comments left, good or bad, and to continue on as before.

    _________________________
    Lastly, addressing the issue of why people come here, personally I find that I come to this forum for more than one reason alone. Yes I find the MBTI fascinating but that is not everything. What is a psychoanalytical tool without a fascination for analysing people? I come here in part to delve into people's minds and discuss the deepest of issues but also I come here in part out of a mere curiosity about people. Those I talk to bear little relation to each other other than they are interesting people and people who have received my inquisitive nature well.

    Again whilst chatting to Aelan she asked why I spoke to her so much when she didn't really engage in or post on those topics which I did. The answer is simple, I found her to be interesting and she's friendly. I guess those reasons should also contribute to what is an impressive reputation score.

    Whilst thinking about subject matters, in my humble opinion I think that those threads which do little more than gather "yeah me too"s and "I like this" are boring as hell and fluff but I also realise that there are those for whom such things are interesting and perhaps even insightful, I see no harm in live and let live in such a place as this.

    Again (and in summation)
    A/ Does anyone use the rep system to gauge posters?
    B/ Should there really be this much fuss over a toy?
    C/ Shall we just move on now if half the board are bored waiting for new and more engaging threads?

    (Apologies for the meandering nature of this post but it's a large and far reaching topic. I've tried to include many variables and that often leads to holes, hence the beating around the bush.)
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #290
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I am not going to dissect and comment on each post in reference to the rep thing, but I will say this. I think it's pretty great that Haight even bothers to keep this site going. It's been useful for me and I have met some very cool people on here. I have mentioned too many times now why I'm here and if certain members want to bicker about a system that means nothing at the end of the day then so be it. I will continue to post with or without a rep system and maintain my friendships online and off.

    Haight, admins and mods, Happy Holiday's to you and yours and thanks for keeping MBTI around. It would truly suck if I tried to log on and the site was gone.

    ...That's all...
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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