NT's and Social Stature

[Cypocalypse]

This is just an observation I wanna clarify, and I would like to know your thoughts on this.

I'm an INTP and I'm a Filipino. In the Philippines, where the culture is more social than individualistic (Imagine Oriental collectivism minus the perfectionist attitude), looking for an INTP is pretty damn difficult. I've only met very few of them (I guess they're xNTP).

Attending a Unitarian Universalist congregation here (which is a very xNxP structured congregation) made me encounter a more of them, though sometimes it's hard to tell whether they're F or T dominant. The only thing I can assure myself is that they're all P).

Most of the UU members in my congregation are middle class to upper class people, (as well as the other non-UU INTP people I've met elsewhere).

Here in the Philippines where social stature is a big issue, observing the stature of my peers would be, I guess, a bit understandable. I'm trying to see if this observation has a bearing. My hypothesis is....

INTPs could have came from a very J oriented family set-up where the P function acts as a counter measure to J, otherwise if all family members would be J, then that would lead into a lot of confrontation. They're probably the children of established (meaning, having a good stature) J parents.

These INTPs may not have a drive for achievement (TJ drive) because the financial work has already been done for them (that is, they're de facto affluent). They need not be popular (SF drive) because their sheer affinity to the family is already enough of an affirmation. Basically, they don't even need attention because their J fuctioned parents have them well monitored.

What they need is individuality, that's why they've strengthened the P function to perceive ways of looking for a definitive niche outside of the J cage, where the Ne is the explorer function.

_______________

There are two NTJs that I know. One is an ENTJ and the other one seems to be an INFJ with a very strong Te. Both of them have stories of living a poor childhood hence the stronger drive to be financially affluent.

Do you think this has validity? That is, one will gun for something that he doesn't have originally? Does that imply that INTPs in general live in a situation where most of the basics are already met hence they enjoy exploring knowledge for knowledge's sake?

[BlackOp]

I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

[Kaizer]

Originally Posted by Cypocalypse

looking for an INTP is pretty damn difficult. I've only met very few of them (I guess they're xNTP).

My hypothesis is....

INTPs could have came from a very J oriented family set-up where the P function acts as a counter measure to J, otherwise if all family members would be J, then that would lead into a lot of confrontation. They're probably the children of established (meaning, having a good stature) J parents.

What they need is individuality, that's why they've strengthened the P function to perceive ways of looking for a definitive niche outside of the J cage, where the Ne is the explorer function.

The P surrounded by Js is something I've just become aware of and paradoxically the P needing to be or expected/naturally seen to have more of the J element in them seems to accompany this. Still trying to figure it out though as well as its effects over the long term especially.

Originally Posted by Cypocalypse

Do you think this has validity? That is, one will gun for something that he doesn't have originally? Does that imply that INTPs in general live in a situation where most of the basics are already met hence they enjoy exploring knowledge for knowledge's sake?

Not quite because of the need for the J side being developed; but I can see and do agree to the extent viz concrete results being seen as byproducts and not necessarily the main focus to achieve that 'byproduct'

[Uytuun]

Originally Posted by BlackOp

I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

I think you are. :p

INTJs tend to believe and then try to find a rational way of defending that belief, but they believe first and foremost. There's a decided affinity with the spiritual in the type, even though that need not be equated with organised religion and can be very idiosyncratic.

I once knew a very religious and wholly convinced INTJ.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Originally Posted by BlackOp

I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

I believe that among NT's, the INTJ is the type most likely to belong to an organized religion.

[Jack Flak]

My best high-school friend, INTJ to the max, was raised Christian and furiously defended the faith, and we debated endlessly. One day he changed his mind and became an atheist.

[sakuraba]

i dont give a F*** about social stature.

[Kristiana]

Originally Posted by BlackOp

I could be wrong on this.... any INTJ in church must have been forced by gunpoint. If they are there...look to the back rows. They are the ones sleeping.....

You're wrong. There are many of us out there who disprove your theory, myself, my husband, and a handful of my friends included

[Antisocial one]

I think it much depends on how strong the 4 letters are when we talk about the religion and INTJ type.

[dnivera]

In response to the OP:

In Asian countries, I agree that high social status means being more Westernized (individualistic) than conforming, so more free-thinking, creative or independent types are more highly represented in the higher classes. It's also related to education level. Asians worship education. "Education" today means something entirely different from "education" 1000 years ago. Today it means more of becoming a cosmopolitan, freethinking person with a sort of global awareness, while 1000 years ago in China, for example, it meant accumulating a massive amount of information so you could pass your bureacratic exams and so forth (SJ-like). So more highly educated people today are more likely to question ideas, be more abstract, strategic and such (NT-ish).

I honestly think that children of affluent parents can turn into anything (not necessarily mostly NTs) because of how much freedom they have to explore while growing up. Our society encourages the "you can do anything!" approach to careers and I was taught that I could be a ballerina, astronaut, or cowboy if I wanted to, when I grew up. (LIES! But that's another story...) With the right amount of nurturing, and sufficient exposure to the arts outside of their primary school education - meaning that children get music lessons, practice art, play a sport, learn foreign languages, etc - they have the encouragement to develop virtually any kind of personality, depending on their environment.
However, NTs are favored because high-earning professions today that Asian parents value (doctor, engineer, lawyer) require so much education, and NTs do so well with math, science, and in academia.