INTJ: How do others see you? (ISFJ mom's opinion of me)

[Uberfuhrer]

I've come to the notion that it's not necessarily the Introverts that have trouble functioning socially, but the iNtuitives, and especially iNtuitive Thinkers, since they tend not to care what other people think.

I've met Sensors that were also Introverted, but they didn't seem very unusual, but iNtuitives, regardless of whether or not they're Extraverted, always seemed to be outcasts, or at least had a unique aura about them that stood out. Extraverted iNtuitives are gregarious like any other Extravert, but they're also perceived as weird, and thus, despite being Extraverts, are still not accepted as much as the Sensors due to their unconventional way of seeing things.

[Usehername]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Well, I do think some of it is because you are not "like your mom" and so she reads that as superficiality. Anything that encourages a palpable bond between people and feelings of caring is seen as good, so what you do is "not as good."
...


Really, as far as your mother goes, I would just think to yourself about what allowances you could make to connect with her in small ways she'd "get." Your strengths probably feel too impersonal or abstract for her to discuss easily, she just doesn't have the interest or capability for prolonged periods of time, if at all. If you can do small tangible things to affirm the relationship (ask your brother to advise you?), maybe that will help her relax and start to accept that you are who you are, and see value in it.

It's not easy, so don't feel bad you're having trouble.

Yeah. I should invest time in thinking about this.


What mostly baffled me was that apparently I am "most similar to" my ESFJ sister. And her argument was backward. I swear it was. I tried to convince her but she smiled this "knowing smile" and I was stuttering at her incomprehensibility; she was saying that my ESFJ sister and I are very alike. I tried to talk to her about how it's only a superficial behavioral similarity (perfectionism)... then she talked about how "I never let friends get close"... ugh.

I just want to shake her. I tried arguing that my mother and I are different people and maybe I don't have the same needs as her (ummm.... SJ = need to belong!) and she totally thinks I'M LYING b/c I never had a best friend when I was younger or since. I HAVE CLOSE FRIENDS; she knows this. "The opportunity has been there time and time again, and you never take it!" Just because I don't need to call them up every 2 hours to talk about tomorrow's superifical plans to see them 24/7 doesn't mean I don't value them. UGH.

She's just really dumb about me sometimes. I know she loves me and tries.

[htb]

Originally Posted by rivercrow

we just come across as emotional b/c of the Ne, I think

Now, that I find very intriguing. At a recent get-together on the East Coast, about thirty-strong, my INTP friend was much more gregarious and lively than I. Like Paul James described, the comportment of a free spirit belied my friend's nature, I think; as when we took a walk and briefly spoke of serious, unfinished business my friend became painstaking and monosyllabic, as if every line of exchange required total concentration.

[cafe]

In my experience, INTPs will deflect serious conversations with humor. It can be very hard to get anywhere with them because they will have you laughing so hard you forget what it was you wanted to talk to them about.

[rivercrow]

Originally Posted by htb

Now, that I find very intriguing. At a recent get-together on the East Coast, about thirty-strong, my INTP friend was much more gregarious and lively than I. Like Paul James described, the comportment of a free spirit belied my friend's nature, I think; as when we took a walk and briefly spoke of serious, unfinished business my friend became painstaking and monosyllabic, as if every line of exchange required total concentration.

That was the renowned INTP chameleon circuit kicking in, I think.

[htb]

Originally Posted by rivercrow

That was the renowned INTP chameleon circuit kicking in, I think.

You're right, you know! Later on, during lunch, I marveled at how an ENFP friend brought such life out of her. And here I was, sincere, clever enough and well-meaning, but so damned dour; and she reflected that. Better that, way back when, we kept it platonic.

Edit:

Originally Posted by cafe

It can be very hard to get anywhere with them because they will have you laughing so hard you forget what it was you wanted to talk to them about.

I think I've seen that before. It's the guilelessness with which they do it, too, that so charms.

[Uberfuhrer]

When I was in middle and high school, I tried a few times to fit in so that people would seem more interested in me (i.e. wearing the overpriced clothes they wear). But the problem was that I wasn't interested in the things they did, so that experiment didn't last very long. So I just spent the rest of my high school years acting out and pressing other people's buttons.

By the way, does anyone know of other INTJs who have an unusually morbid sense of humor? I guess you can say other people perceived my sense of humor as really morbid (my mom says I'd make a good mortician). And I sometimes catch myself laughing and thinking of witty James Bond-like puns when I watch prime time television.

[rivercrow]

Originally Posted by Usehername

What mostly baffled me was that apparently I am "most similar to" my ESFJ sister. And her argument was backward. I swear it was. I tried to convince her but she smiled this "knowing smile" and I was stuttering at her incomprehensibility; she was saying that my ESFJ sister and I are very alike. I tried to talk to her about how it's only a superficial behavioral similarity (perfectionism)... then she talked about how "I never let friends get close"... ugh.

I think the similarity is probably the Extraverted Judging. Both of you would apparently come to closure quickly--faster than someone with an Extraverted Sensing function.

All moms--and anyone over the age of 30--master the "knowing smile." The best counter to that is a return "knowing smile" with no counterargument. Trust me.

(Or, just admit that you need to pick your battles and this one could be a Pyrrhic victory.)

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Usehername

What mostly baffled me was that apparently I am "most similar to" my ESFJ sister. And her argument was backward. I swear it was. I tried to convince her but she smiled this "knowing smile" and I was stuttering at her incomprehensibility; she was saying that my ESFJ sister and I are very alike. I tried to talk to her about how it's only a superficial behavioral similarity (perfectionism)... then she talked about how "I never let friends get close"... ugh.

As far as superficials, I guess she was right; but as far as essentials, you were.

I think you are a little better off because you understand that people work differently; your mom still thinks that everyone works similarly and she's "wiser" than you are. But it also puts more burden on you, since you are actually wiser in terms of evaluating people for who they are.

I just want to shake her... Just because I don't need to call them up every 2 hours to talk about tomorrow's superifical plans to see them 24/7 doesn't mean I don't value them. UGH. She's just really dumb about me sometimes. I know she loves me and tries.

Yeah.

I know it doesn't make you feel any better or solve your problem, but my mom is an ISFJ as well and still doesn't understand me. She tries hard to accommodate me, but we have a lot of trouble having any sort of conversations that I would find meaningful; at best, I have to talk about the things she's interested in, on her level.

I do try sometimes to stretch her, but I can't do much of it, and that's disappointing to me. My heart sinks when she gets that "deer in the headlights" look and becomes totally baffled, and we have to change the topic.

So vent all you want.

[Metamorphosis]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

ISFJs like to feel needed and included; they like to support others in tangible and often practical ways.

QFE

I am also an INTJ with an ISFJ mom (who doesn't believe in MBTI, btw). On top of which, her boss is an INTJ. She respects him as a boss and knows him well enough to know that he is not the asshole that most people think he is. (Coworkers getting pissed because he walks right past without saying hi, and stupid stuff like that). I try to explain everything, but it is difficult to explain to someone who doesn't think MBTI has any bearing on real life (which all the ISFJs I know tend to believe).

However, just as I quoted, they definately feel like they have to be helping in some way. On one hand, this is helpful, as it tends to let me ignore tedious unnecessary tasks, but it also tends to be annoying when I am constantly pestered to do something before it actually needs to be done.

I think our roles, in relation to each other, are undergoing a change, though, as we both get older. She is becoming less of a caretaker and I am becoming more of a physical guardian. Loyalty from a relatively ruthless person is really useful (for all of you who have INTJ friends and family, keep that in mind). I am a very protective person, eventhough it probably isn't visible to most people.

As far as how she views me...I think her main problem is my "arrogance." Like I said, difficult to explain to someone who doesn't believe in MBTI. She also hates it when I say something to the extent of, "Don't worry about it, I'll do perfectly fine." (normally in relation to driving dangerously, financial success, or whatever)