The INTP and Feelings

[reason]

I have been told by many people that I am remarkably good at understanding others, and that I can explicate that understanding in a clear and concise manner. Consequently, I have frequently acted in a counselor capacity to others, and I am acutely aware that this often involves conscious and calculated manipulation. This is not nefarious or ill-intended manipulation, but nonetheless I do intend to manipulate the emotional state and thoughts of others, and do so quite successfully, or so I am told.

In fact, I am fascinated by people, their emotions, feelings, customs, habits, predelictions, theories, incentives, motives, etc. and have invested a great deal of time studying morality and ethics. For example, some would say that I am interested in economics, but this is not quite right. Instead, I am interested in the relationships which hold between people, their well-being, conduct and the social rules which govern that. My attitude is like that of Adam Smith, who never considered himself an economist, but rather a moral philosopher.

The purpose of my writing this, is to draw attention to the fact that INTPs are often said to be uninterested, or even incapable of dealing with these issues. This view, which perhaps aligns with the common assumption that reason and emotion are inherently incompatible, with each reigning over seperate magisteria, is at odds with my life, interests, hobbies, attitude and personal experience.

There is, perhaps, a source of this confusion, in that INTPs frequently appear to be socially incompetent and awkward. There is some truth in this for me. I am not always aware of social trends, local customs, and my absent-mindedness frequently is interpreted as rudeness. I also often choose to avoid many social engagements. Moreover, I can be somewhat undiplomatic, intentionally so, and many mistake this for not understanding the "appropriate" behaviour.

Anyway, I was just posting to see if anyone else had any similar experiences. In any case, I think it is a persistent myth that those who test INTP are both emotionally and socially as deaf, dumb and blind as many suggest.

(Note: I almost always test as an INTP, very occasionally as ENTP or INTJ).

[Jennifer]

While some INTPs might be oblivious (because their attention has been fiercely focused on other things besides social customs, emoting, face reading, perception of the inner states of others, etc.), I think you are right.

Oftentimes the expectations are understood, they are just ignored or not prioritized as highly as others might prioritize them, because the INTP values other things more or just really doesn't understand why other people value them so much... or perhaps even purposefully chooses not to comply, because they think the expectations are stupid or misguided and that they need to take a stand against such things in order to maintain integrity.

(And this is what I find with people in general, of all types. When they run afoul of other types' expectations, it is not necessarily because they are clueless... but because their personal value/priorities conflict with these other ones, and they are choosing to follow their own priorities.)

So conflict is inevitable at first.

I don't see INTPs as shut out of the social, relational, or emotional arena at all. It is mostly a matter of choice and focus as to what INTPs commit their resources towards. Most of the excuses are bogus. On INTPc, the attitude predominately is not "I don't perceive the expectations," it's "I think the expectations are stupid" or "I'm angry because of all the stupid things people expect me to comply with that I don't think make sense or are arbitrary."

[Priam]

It's interesting you bring this up, because I recently discussed it with my ENFP friend. She is a social butterfly, constantly in motion doing something with or for other people, while I tend to be the one standing off and observing. This makes me rather more inept at gladhanding, but much more reliable at evaluation/critique. We both, however, share the ability to charm and impress people when necessary, though our techniques are quite different.

I believe, for an INTP, the ability to understand and, above all, acheive that ever-important competence rests entirely in making people our hobby. Due to my intense interest in psychology and the politics of society, I am able and eager to see people as an end in themselves rather than a means that may or may not be dispensed with. Does this mean I don't eventually weary of their company and need to recharge? Of course not. It just means that, when I'm out in the world I can effectively move within it.

[faith]

Isn't Keirsey an INTP? If so, that would seem to be a very good example of how thoroughly INTPs can understand people and their relationships with each other.

[Xander]

Hell yeah. An INTP who has an interest in people and their reactions and interactions will apply a large amount of time and effort to master that field (become competent). Mostly INTPs are masters of whatever is their focus. That's the goal. The whole ignorance of things which lie outside of this central thrust is an offshoot of the focus itself. It kind of blinkers you.

[God Of Emptiness]

INTP's aren't always the detached emotionless people were made out to be in type descriptions. Our feelings may even run deeper than a more Extraverted Feeling types we just keep it to ourselves most of the time and try to understand it. I only share my feelings with those that I trust, which are a very select few.

[Athenian200]

Oh, I'd agree that INTP's tend to have emotions... just not the ones you'd like them to have, or would expect them to have. They seem to overreact to insignificant expectations and can be oblivious to glaringly obvious ones, from what I can tell. And I think this improves with effort, over time. (This can apply to many other Introverted types as well.)

Anyway, in response to nocturne on overlooking local customs: I've found that as long as you try to obey social expectations that are common across a large area (such as a state or country), people are more forgiving if a more local or recent thing is overlooked at first. They know that it might be unusual enough for some not to be aware of it. This is even more likely if you look really apologetic and say you didn't know that was expected. Very few people are rigid enough to be that unforgiving.

[Magic Poriferan]

I'm definitely and exception to the stereo-type.
I am receptive to feelings and I admire the ability to be emotional in other people.
In public, I do hold back my emotions, but I don't think I'm unpleasant about it, I think I'm the kind of person that nervously shuffles and says things like "pardon me" a lot.
When I'm involved with people I trust, then I might be too open with my feelings. I think I look to my confidants as a well needed venting point. They are my emotional pillows.

Now, it's obvious to me that I'm a bit of an odd bannana among my type, so I often look at my other results and compare.
I know that being a 1w2 is odd for an INTP, but I wonder my instincts as well.
How many INTPs are Intimate? (For those of you who don't understand, I mean the "sexual" instinct.)
I'm Intimate, and then self-Preservational, and then Social in last place.
Perhaps that's uncommon?

For me, the whole thing with INTPs being so aloof is rather frustrating. It's not fair to me.

[htb]

Aficionados of music include the tone-deaf.

Three people I know well, who are more or less confirmed INTPs, are remarkably similar: independent, idiosyncratic, outwardly mild, puzzled by human relations and to whom anger or intensity could be classified as extrinsic. INTPs aren't necessarily deficient interpersonally because they are inclined to pure logic; I don't know the cause but am acutely aware of the condition.

Let me grasp for another analogy: an INTP pushed beyond what he's been taught is like a poor improviser forced to deviate from the script that he had well-rehearsed. There's nothing quite like the sudden monotone of an INTP who must relationally ad-lib.

Hexchild, from INTPc, matched these three in the autobiographical information he provided. At one point he noted that he understood relationships as static, as if they were code or statute; and that a change couldn't be perceived, or even conjectured, but only announced by the other. One of my three, an INTP to whom I was once quite close, disclosed the same mechanical process. We were settling a stillborn romance -- the discussion my initiative, of course -- and I defended an acerbic statement I'd made in front of others. She thought I was still angry. I said I wasn't; and as if she were reformatting a disk, or replacing a link to a cascading style sheet, she replied, "then I'll no longer assume you're acting out of a grudge." Damnedest thing.

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by htb

Let me grasp for another analogy: an INTP pushed beyond what he's been taught is like a poor improviser forced to deviate from the script that he had well-rehearsed. There's nothing quite like the sudden monotone of an INTP who must relationally ad-lib.

You really think so? That sounds like an ISTJ to me.
I have never thought of INTPs as people that run by a taught script.