Help with INTJs

[raincrow007]

Originally Posted by Xander

Despite all that though I'd like to be able to use any advice in other contexts too, hence why I removed the context originally.

[That better?]

Much better, you dumbass.

Sounds like your INTJ is pissed that people are wasting his time. Very common problem, I'd wager. Have you tried asking him what he's thinking about in relation to the problem? Repeatedly ask "why" until you get down to something binary. Work from there, if desired.

Also, in keeping with your peacemaking tendencies: aid him by making sure no events are scheduled unless there's a guarantee that all parties will be present.

On the other hand, who the hell wants to deal with a peevish INTJ DM? Sure, things will get done -- but probably not in an enjoyable manner if he's a social retard.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Kiddo

Piss em off. That always gets a reaction.

I am dating an INTJ and it's proving to be a strange experience. He can be friendly and warm, just not in a personable way. I found if I get him talking about his favorite subject then he will get excited to an extent and show some enthusiasm.

For such black and white people, at times, it's almost like someone's taken a large bottle of water to their enthusiasm somedays... mind you I fin that with most NTs. Bloody apathy!!

Now when drunk this INTJ can be very friendly, as Lori found out much to her dismay, but that seems about it. Most of the rest of the time you get brain in a jar syndrome.

[Usehername]

Originally Posted by Xander

Yeah yeah. Bet you been hit by enough to know the difference. Oh Zena of the Texan bars

Personally I prefer THV but they're rare so I doubt they'd be any good.

The real question is what calibre?

there's a topic??? Oh yeah that thing

This much I recognise but I was trying to be specific. How to crack the shell of decisions and such to reach the decision making in progress. More detail would produce more sideline discussion would it not?

I'll illuminate the problem fully and see how it works out.
This INTJ. Mr Sour, is the DM of a gaming group. Now we've had a rocky start to the current game with people being unavailable and hence we've played only one evening so far in about three months. He's starting to get put off by this and how some people in the group (the extroverts) don't seem enthusiastic to him. I'm trying to gee him up by pointing out that they won't really be interested in the concept stage and that he should wait until we start playing to get a feel for their enthusiasm. However despite this and other more subtle attempts to keep him behind the project (without a DM we're screwed, for one thing, and for another Mr Sour is not always a popular person in our little circle and I like to spend some time devoted to keeping him all bright and shiny cause I'd hate to see him get upset at the amount of backlash he generates (he's a true NT )). As for why I care, he's a friend dumb-ass

Despite all that though I'd like to be able to use any advice in other contexts too, hence why I removed the context originally.

[That better?]

INTJs go into their cave (as FMWarner will tell you) when they have something to figure out. You have to go caving with them; they don't voluntarily take people but when someone else turns up next to you when we think we're alone in the cave, we get excited and you can "play" with us. Just generate ideas for him; let him talk unless he specifically asks for your input. If you feed his Ni and let him roll, he'll go faster than he would if he was stimulating his own brain. Then he'll appreciate you and perhaps talk to you next time before he has solved the problem, assuming that if you had originally helped him get from A-Z faster, you can do it again.

Key is, the first time, to keep your mouth shut as much as possible so as not to annoy the Ni process. It's very difficult to let anyone see that. I've done it with other INTJs and a few ENFJs, though; it can be done.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Usehername

INTJs go into their cave (as FMWarner will tell you) when they have something to figure out. You have to go caving with them; they don't voluntarily take people but when someone else turns up next to you when we think we're alone in the cave, we get excited and you can "play" with us. Just generate ideas for him; let him talk unless he specifically asks for your input. If you feed his Ni and let him roll, he'll go faster than he would if he was stimulating his own brain. Then he'll appreciate you and perhaps talk to you next time before he has solved the problem, assuming that if you had originally helped him get from A-Z faster, you can do it again.

Key is, the first time, to keep your mouth shut as much as possible so as not to annoy the Ni process. It's very difficult to let anyone see that. I've done it with other INTJs and a few ENFJs, though; it can be done.

Ooo that's useful.. We do chat a bit...usually till about 2am unfortunately it just never seems like I have any impact. I'm sitting there throwing out ideas, usually watching them get batted down, and then he decides seemingly in a vacuum!! It's most disheartening.

[PinkPiranha]

Well, with my male INTJ best friend, I just told him plainly and calmly that the social group he most enjoys is having an issue with some of his, shall we say, spinier, behaviors, and I put it into "necessary" terms, meaning you have to make it somehow relevant or logical to them to alter course. In my case, he saw the logic in changing his behavior because he valued his close friends and wanted to continue being a part of the group, so he made a few amendments.

Getting aggressive rarely works. (I have had to take a strong tone with him before, but it was pertinent to the situation, and since he's not made of dust, he could take some justifiable anger directed at him.) Gentle persuasion, in my experience, has worked best, though his other best friend, a male INTP (and my ex boyfriend) has employed the "boot to the rear" method a time or two with great effect.

[ptgatsby]

Simple answer.

Just tell him at some point, after building them up and being patient, he'll be able to destroy all their work with one small sentance.

"You were eaten by a grue".

I could of done a Dr Seuss with that,
just not with my cold and flu.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I'm always hesitant to have an INTJ DM. I think they tend to plan out everything so much that they really don't need the input of the players. In fact having real players interact in their world is just going to screw up the storyline that they have already intricately planned out.

Anyway cracking an INTJ isn't that hard when you understand their motivations. INTJ's tend to be frustrated that other people don't realize how truly brilliant they are, so you can win points by feeding this delusion. (Do it subtly though, if you overdo it, then you will turn them off.) This will be enough to stroke their ego, but it won't be enough for them to actually respect you in any way. For that you have to get involved into their interests and help feed it in some way. Often times knowing the subject thoroughly enough so that they can bounce ideas off of you is all that this takes, because if nothing else it helps them to verbalize the ideas that they've already had but couldn't adequately express. Once you are past the preliminaries then the INTJ will be willing to open up more, so you can learn more tricks toward the specific INTJ in question.

[Metamorphosis]

Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser

Anyway cracking an INTJ isn't that hard when you understand their motivations. INTJ's tend to be frustrated that other people don't realize how truly brilliant they are, so you can win points by feeding this delusion. (Do it subtly though, if you overdo it, then you will turn them off.) This will be enough to stroke their ego, but it won't be enough for them to actually respect you in any way. For that you have to get involved into their interests and help feed it in some way. Often times knowing the subject thoroughly enough so that they can bounce ideas off of you is all that this takes, because if nothing else it helps them to verbalize the ideas that they've already had but couldn't adequately express. Once you are past the preliminaries then the INTJ will be willing to open up more, so you can learn more tricks toward the specific INTJ in question.

Well put, sadly.

[htb]

Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser

I'm always hesitant to have an INTJ DM. I think they tend to plan out everything so much that they really don't need the input of the players. In fact having real players interact in their world is just going to screw up the storyline that they have already intricately planned out.

Interesting.

I ran a group of eight and nine players for three years, every weekend, summers and holidays, and the most memorable sessions were when the more inventive of the party would veer off, forcing me to ad-lib. It really was exhilarating -- once a suspension of disbelief had been achieved, I could choose to employ, based on the expressions of my friends, which of the plot devices I had thought of the minute before.

How, I wonder, does that reflect on either me or your observation?

[niffer]

Here are some lines to try:

"You can do it! I know you can!!"
"Why not?"
"But you just said *insert contradiction they made*!" <--*note: It is a good idea to watch out for these....lol
"There has to be a way!"
"But what're you gonna do when x happens?" <-- Just keep expanding from this point...hopefully you'll get them to contradict themselves so that you can use the one above.
"Do it for me!! If you don't then I can't x(something that is extremely important to you)!!" *begins sobbing*

Last resort! (only use this after the crying one):
Sit with your neck limp, your eyes blank and fixed in one place, and your mouth slightly open. Keep your body still. Make tears roll down your eyes silently. Do not move or respond to anything they do! After five to ten minutes, slowly look up at them into their eyes, while keeping the tears still rolling. If they get up and leave, wait ten seconds, then call their name out quietly and move a foot in their direction.

If the above does not work, then I cannot help you.