INTJs vs. INTPs

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

I would not get too hung up on this one thing. Motivations are generally more important than the quality expressed. Many types can be absent-minded or impractical, just for different reasons.

Note that types separated by a J/P factor really are much further away / different from each other than types separated by a T/F or S/N factor.

INTP = Ti + Ne + Si + Fe
INTJ = Ni + Te + Fi + Se

So no functions are the same in the Conscious Self. INTP and INTJ are very different in terms of what functions are used most easily. INTP is actually more similar to ISTP (Ti similarity) in how it thinks, and more similar to INFP (Ne similarity) in what it envisions in the outer world.

See my signature -- I am very clearly INTP, not INTJ, especially if you know me in real life you'd see that there is no WAY I am a J... but my Oldham and enneagram scores are very similar to yours. (I do not know what that means for you exactly.)

Excellent post. The J/P function really messes with people. The "INTX" is a myth.

[Uberfuhrer]

Well, with functions considered, I assume the INTJ is more addicted to his fantasies (sexual, sadistic, or otherwise).

In case of IxTP, however, the ISTP analyzes concrete things, with suitable professions including everything from your average grease monkey to brilliant surgeon and/or computer hardware specialist.

The INTP analyzes abstract ideas, and thus ranges from your average geek to theoretical physicist.

[hotmale]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Excellent post. The J/P function really messes with people. The "INTX" is a myth.

Not really. I think some people are really borderline. I'm not certain if J/P functions are mutually exclusive. Some people seem to possess both of equal amounts.

[Schizm]

me.

INTj or INTp?

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Excellent post. The J/P function really messes with people. The "INTX" is a myth.

Indeed.

I think that younger Js, college age or younger, will often come out as Ps when they take an MBTI test. Then you get into the real world and come to learn why the phrase "moving mountains" exists. That's when the schedule pads, calendars, watches timed to the minute to the train line you use most often, etc., start to become a necessity.

There's no doubt in my mind that, had I taken an MBTI test in college, I would have come out as an INTP.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by hotmale

Not really. I think some people are really borderline. I'm not certain if J/P functions are mutually exclusive. Some people seem to possess both of equal amounts.

You don't understand J/P either.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

You don't understand J/P either.

In fairness, as pointed out to me by PTGatsby, the newer MBTI does treat J and P as an independent function. (Essentially making MBTI the Big Four and pissing all over its Jungian heritage.)

[Xander]

INTP.

If your that bothered by your definition then I'd place money on INTP. Most INTJs I know couldn't give a monkey's left nut what you labelled them as.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Excellent post. The J/P function really messes with people. The "INTX" is a myth.

If you use X to mean "unknown" then it's a useful concept. So long as I'm not sure whether I'm Ti-dominant or Ni-dominant, I can't confidently describe myself as anything else. The other three letters are usually easier to narrow down. J/P has a special meaning for introverts that makes it easy to mess up on, so caution is merited.

The reason for the confusion is people tend to confuse their score (an indicator of type) with their true type (a hard and unchanging fact to be determined.) As in, they think "people who score INTJ" is somehow the definition of INTJ. In reality it's "People with dominant Ni, auxiliary Te, etc." that defines what an INTJ is. People who score INTJ are more likely to be Ni-dominant. But it's just a statistical indicator, and most of the time at least one letter is off.

Originally Posted by Xander

INTP.

If your that bothered by your definition then I'd place money on INTP. Most INTJs I know couldn't give a monkey's left nut what you labelled them as.

To me at least, it's not a matter of labeling. It's about making a correct logical determination. Failure to do so is really irksome. So yeah, I'm probably INTP.

Originally Posted by Schizm

me.

INTj or INTp?

Sergei Ganin is basically a brilliant nutjob -- I say that with the greatest affection and respect for his work. He explains Socionics very thoroughly, but made a mistake (or at least, a hugely controversial move) in translating the 4-letter system to the MBTI. Reinin (another socionics figure) made this same mistake earlier, and honestly it's a counter-intuitive issue to start with. Basically the "mistake" is using the J/P letter to represent "rationality" in a straightforward sense, rather than inverting it's meaning for introverts.

Picture someone translating a work from Russian and substituting P for R because that's what the cryllic equivalent looks like. It's "simpler" for the translator, but the target audience is going to totally mispronounce everything.

Instead of being INTP, I would be INTj in that system. An INTJ would likewise be called an INTp. There's a good theoretical reason for this, even though it's more cumbersome on a practical level. From an inward perspective an INTP is actually more uptight -- they want 100% logical answers to everything. Whereas from an outward, everyday perspective, they "let things slide" more easily, and are more "laid back", less critical -- all the stereotypical P traits. So you look at one and think "P" but after getting to know them close-up, you have some doubts because they're really kind of uptight. The same happens for INTJ. They only seem J-like on the surface, once you get to know them they have a side that is much more P-like.

One approach is to use a lowercase 4-letter to refer only to strict rationality. Then Fi-dominant and Ti-dominant types will be the lowercase-j's along with the Fe and Te dominant types. But the original meaning of uppercase J and P is not going to go away any time soon, so I really don't think this is the best idea as a general practice.

[proteanmix]

Luke, you actually know what the hell you're talking about!