Manipulation VS Sweet Talking

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

I just read this article:

How to Be a Sweet-Talker - Esquire

When I finished, I'm sure I had this look on my face like 'what an ass...' laced with a tinge of envy toward those who can always seem to get what they want or need.

Is this kind of thing just something that people should learn as a 'survival skill', or is there just something morally wrong with it? (Read through to the end, you'll see what I mean)

I find myself thinking 'That's messed up', and I know that I've been the person duped by this kind of ... manipulation? ... more than once. I'm the person coming back to the counter to reclaim what I thought was mine, only to find that someone else had taken it.

While this kind of attitude brings me in second place a lot, I don't think I could be this kind of 'sweet talker' without having some conscience issues...

[disregard]

He almost sweet-talked me to sleep with that bore of an article.

[MacGuffin]

I only do it in bed.

[BerberElla]

My ESFJ sister is brilliant at all of that, always sweet talking/bartering for a better deal. She has no qualms about it and figures if she can get away ith it then why the hell not.

At times I stand in awe of the ability and wish I could sweet talk the shop owner into giving me some freebies, at others I am disgusted because it can be too manipulative.

However if it's just a store, an upgrade, some freebies, then why the hell not? it's when she manipulates peoples emotions to get other stuff that it bothers me.

[Synarch]

"Sweet-talking" is like any ability. Used for good, it's good. Used for bad, it's bad.

Trying to get what you want is the norm in most societies. In the West, we just have such a fetish for the sanctity of the individual that we are not comfortable interacting on such a mercenarial and direct level with our fellows, despite the fact that it is sometimes to your advantage to go after what you want while not disadvantaging anyone else. This type of behavior is the norm everywhere else. I say learn to use it or defend against rather than making a value judgment on its ethical weight.

In each case this guy cited, he was able to gain while not costing someone else. He got what he wanted by creating allies and certainly at the store he bought the product, so the store owner came out ahead.

[kyuuei]

.. I don't think people should be fake. When it comes to stores, you have to haggle because otherwise people are going to rip you off, the sad reality of it all. They want to get everything they can, and so do you, so in the end it's who's the victor.

It's a different story when you're sweet talking a girl. I know I've been the 'victim' of sweet talking before, and nothing pissed me off more, and unfortunately any nice conversation/compliments are now taken as wary, big-red warning flags for possible other motives.. So I think when used in that way, it's way more damaging than helpful in the end.

[Synarch]

The truth is, and I know NF's hate such cynicism, but words and 'feelings' do not mean anything. They are air. They are variable. They change. Building anything on feeling or words, is a risk.

The only thing you can safely rely on is judging people by their actions. This will reveal where their true feelings and commitments lie. Look at the decisions people make, watch what they do, observe how they treat people they do not need to impress.

Edit: Also, make people earn your trust.

[disregard]

^ Pointed at for truth.

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

Originally Posted by Synarch

"Sweet-talking" is like any ability. Used for good, it's good. Used for bad, it's bad.

Trying to get what you want is the norm in most societies. In the West, we just have such a fetish for the sanctity of the individual that we are not comfortable interacting on such a mercenarial and direct level with our fellows, despite the fact that it is sometimes to your advantage to go after what you want while not disadvantaging anyone else. This type of behavior is the norm everywhere else. I say learn to use it or defend against rather than making a value judgment on its ethical weight.

In each case this guy cited, he was able to gain while not costing someone else. He got what he wanted by creating allies and certainly at the store he bought the product, so the store owner came out ahead.

This is the debatable point. What about the person who probably needed the store item just as badly as he did and was expecting it to be there after they went to get whatever they went for. THAT person is the unwitting loser in this instance. In my opinion that isn't haggling, its just dirty.

[runvardh]

I just worry about preventing myself from getting screwed; I often do this by making screwing me over as difficult as possible. The more they sweat the possibility that none of their tricks will work the happier I am.