Unreliable People

[Brendan]

"...like many other FJ types, find themselves caught between the desire to express their wealth of feelings and moral conclusions about the actions and attitudes of others, and the awareness of the consequences of unbridled candor."

So I find myself living the above sentiment. The other day, a relatively new friend of mine and I expressed a desire to smoke together. Things were iffy about whether or not it would work out, as he had been fighting with his significant other for three straight days, and the previous night the fight lasted until 5 in the morning, and then he got up to go to work at 11 am, so needless to say, the man needed some sleep. I myself needed to get started on a buttload of homework. So I specifically asked him to give me a call to let me know what was up, whether we decided to hang out or not. He agreed. Plans changed and he then asked me to give him a call when I got home, and I did. When he picked up the phone, he asked if he could call me back in a few minutes. I said yes. He didn't call.

Things like this really get under my skin. They make me feel insecure and unwanted. If you can't call me back or won't, that's fine, but don't tell me that you will. It only causes me to take your word with a grain of salt. I don't like having to do that. I know enough unreliable people already, please don't add to it.

Now, being that he's my friend, and I'm at least partially aware of what's been going on in his life lately, I'm guessing that it's probably not that big of a deal. He could have easily just fallen asleep from exhaustion, he could have been arguing with his parents about whether or not i could come over, he could have gotten into another fight with his significant other, and it could simply have just slipped his mind. I can think of understandable reason after understandable reason. There's the possibility that he specifically wanted not to hang out with me, but his actions speak the complete opposite. Why would he have asked "what are you up to later," if he wanted not to hang out with me?

I know that my insecurity is misallocated here, but that's just it. I don't want to have to belittle my own insecurity. I don't want to have to think of reasons why he might not have called. Even if it's just a text message saying, "Hey, I'm not going to be able to call," it would be something I can deal with. But I hate feeling left in the dark.


Then, last night, I was supposed to hang out with my friends Sam and Davey at Sam's house. The two were supposed to get out of work at 9. We'd been in contact over the course of the day, and when I called Sam at about 9:15, he asked if I could give him an extra half hour, which was fine. Things come up, whatever. Then Davey calls and says he's still at work, but to head to Sam's at 10. Again, things come up, whatever. So I watch the last two episodes of Season 4 of Weeds.

I get to Sam's house at about 10:30, he's not there, so I call and he says give him five more minutes. I wait for 10, leave, because I'm pissed off and fed up with waiting, and twenty minutes later, he calls. Because I didn't pick up, I assume it was to ask where I was.

The math here says that 5 = 30.

So I've been friends with these guys for quite some time, and am aware that they vastly understate the amount of time they take to get anywhere. Should I have taken this into my calculations? Yes. But recently, changes have been taking place, and quite frankly, I'm fucking fed up with people telling me what they think I want to hear. I've been friends with you for years, you always tell me you're going to be earlier than you actually are, and I never complain. Can we move past the childish understatements of time? Because clearly, I don't care if you're going to take an hour and a half. But, you know, I do care if you lie to me on a regular basis. And that's what this was. A lie.

So, in conclusion. Fuck lies and the people who tell them.

[kuranes]

If someone consistently does these kinds of things you should unload on them and then ( if they continue doing it ) drop them as people to "make plans" with. I know some people like this, and I'm happier for having done that. If they say they are coming right over, or call to ask if we could do something immediately, then I will say "yes" or "no" to that, but no plans made in advance. Some people use that "Can I call you right back?" phrase as a way of saying "goodbye" and it drives me crazy too.

Two types of people tend to want everything to be tentative. The extremely controlling and the extremely scattered. I require them both to have some way of overcompensating ( be extremely entertaining or whatever ) that in order for me to put up with it much.

[Randomnity]

I have friends (and family) like that too. It irritates me a lot sometimes, though I can prevent some of it by A) making plans 1/2-1 hour earlier than needed, and B) meeting only in places where I can do other things while I'm waiting (ie my house). Or C) avoiding making plans with these people anymore, although for some of these it isn't an option (ie mom, bf, good friend ). I tend to express my annoyance every time as well, but that rarely does anything.

I don't think there's an intent to mislead you...in most cases I've found that the person really does think they'll get there when they say they will...some people just have no idea how to estimate time.

[ajblaise]

Let him know your annoyed or mad, with us P's, the more paranoid we are about forgetting things or sticking to plans the more reliable we are.

If I didn't have a healthy fear of leaving the oven on, I might have been swept of by fire in my sleep by now.

[BlownAway]

This must be a universal problem for all NF:s!? Been there too so many times too, people not doing what they promised to do, people lying. It gets under my skin and makes me angry.

But lately I've been thinking, as an NF you're an expert on interpersonal stuff, empathy and how to handle other people. Maybe someday we'll stop being angry with the less gifted and just proud of ourselves for being so great

Just curious, have you ever discussed this with your friends? I mean, really put all on the table and told them how you feel? In that case, how did they react?

[Jack Flak]

A good friend of mine is a walking punctuality disaster. I'll call him "Jim" for the purposes of this post. When he says he'll be there in x minutes, I start expecting him in about 4x minutes. I call this phenomenon "Jim-Time."

[Rachelinpa]

Originally Posted by BlownAway

This must be a universal problem for all NF:s!? Been there too so many times too, people not doing what they promised to do, people lying. It gets under my skin and makes me angry.

Do you think it's just a difference in values? Like, being on time just isn't important to them and they don't translate it into how it might make us feel unimportant and unwanted? I have a hard time believing it's just an NF thing... I don't think anyone likes being stood up. At the same time, maybe we take it harder?

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by BlownAway

This must be a universal problem for all NF:s!? Been there too so many times too, people not doing what they promised to do, people lying. It gets under my skin and makes me angry.

But lately I've been thinking, as an NF you're an expert on interpersonal stuff, empathy and how to handle other people. Maybe someday we'll stop being angry with the less gifted and just proud of ourselves for being so great

Just curious, have you ever discussed this with your friends? I mean, really put all on the table and told them how you feel? In that case, how did they react?

"...like many other FJ types, find themselves caught between the desire to express their wealth of feelings and moral conclusions about the actions and attitudes of others, and the awareness of the consequences of unbridled candor."

...Not yet. I'm still considering the best way to express my desire for a change in the pattern.

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

A good friend of mine is a walking punctuality disaster. I'll call him "Jim" for the purposes of this post. When he says he'll be there in x minutes, I start expecting him in about 4x minutes. I call this phenomenon "Jim-Time."

LOL! My friends and I have "Davey-Time."

[disregard]

I've learned that being direct and honest as soon as possible is the best way to handle situations like this (and other disappointments).

"Hey, let's hang out."
"I'm going to be honest: I'm not too keen on making plans with you because of your history of flagrant unreliability."

It gives them an idea of how upset you are, it tells them what they're doing is unacceptable, it excuses you from being subjected to their shenanigans because you've addressed the issue, you get to unburden yourself of the feelings that are associated with disappointment, and they are then held to a higher standard.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Rachelinpa

Do you think it's just a difference in values? Like, being on time just isn't important to them and they don't translate it into how it might make us feel unimportant and unwanted?

This is why I have such a hard time expressing my frustration. They're responsible for their actions or lack thereof, and I'm responsible for how I react. If I didn't care, then technically, their hypothetical tardiness or unreliability wouldn't even be an issue. But I do care. So how to move forward...