INFJ and divorce from reality?

[SolitaryWalker]

"The extravert would say : "Reality does not exist for him, he gives himself up to fruitless fantasies." The perception of the images of the unconscious, produced in such inexhaustible abundance by the creative energy of life, is of course fruitless from the standpoint of immediate utility. But since these images represent possible views of the world which may give life a new potential, this function, which to the outside world is the strangest of all, is as indispensable to the total psychic economy as is the corresponding human type to the psychic life of a people. Had this type not existed, there would have been no prophets in Israel." Psychological Types, P.400

The INFJ has the propensity to be divorced from reality because their perceiving function is introverted. Introversion naturally defines the external environment in terms of how it relates to the self and not how it is in its own right. Thus the external environment is distorted by the internal unconscious predispositions of the INFJ.

"Even with only a slight increase in the power of the unconscious, the subjective component of sensation becomes so alive that it almost completely obscures the influence of the object. If the object is a person, he feels completely devalued, while the subject has an illusory conception of reality, which in pathological cases goes so far that he is no longer able to distinguish between the real object and the subjective perceptions....Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons. That they appear thus to him never enters his head, though that is just the effect they have on his judgments and actions. He judges and acts as though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality." Psychological Types, Introverted Sensing.

Very similar statements could be made about Introverted Sensing. However, Introverted Sensing is much more grounded in reality because of its affinity with the concrete world. The distorted perceptions of Introverted Intuition can stretch as far as the imagination of this type would allow, which we know is very far as Introverted Intuition is in closest affinity with imagination of all types. Because it is not restricted by the Judgment of Thinking, not nearly as much as the INTJ type, the INFJ is almost indubitably the most Intuitive type. In this context, however, it is not at all a good thing. As many of the worldviews produced are manifestly a form of madness. Besides this, what are the other reasons why such an 'insane' worldview may emerge? We know that we naturally have a negative attitude towards the functions and attitudes we are not in close affinity with. In the case of the INFJ, it is the Extroverted Sensing. Thus the attitude is most negative towards extroverted sensing.

The INFJ shares the attitude of the classical Keirseyan SJ who is profoundly pessimistic about the external world and is very security conscious. Yet in the case of the INFJ such attitude is far more ingenious! In effect they have a very abstract model of 'the whole world is trying to screw me!'.

Another reason for this is Introverted Thinking is also aimed at the subject. Thus there is also an aversion to problems of the external world. Unlike a strong, objective introverted thinking type, the Thinking of the INFJ is underdeveloped. Thus in addition to the persecution mania induced by the abstract vision of Ni a similar vision emerges as a result of malfunctioning Thinking. Thinking is not only negative towards the external world because of introversion, or for the same reason as Intuition, but also because this function in itself is under-developed. Thus it inevitably conjures negative thoughts about the world of impersonal occurences. One is only to imagine how much those could be magnified by the vision of Introverted Intuition.

I suppose one shall request examples of such INFJ insanity.

1)Arthur Schopenhauer-All Willing is evil because it is selfish. It is selfish to will to live. Selfishness by definition causes suffering. Because everything wills, everything is evil. Thus the whole world is out to screw me! The whole world is out to screw me. There is 1000 page treatise (2 volumes) of World as Will and Representation written to support such a view. In addition to this, a very large collection of essays which span well over a 1000 pages as well.



2)Fyodor Dostoevsky-Believed that the Russian soil is sacred and just like Israel, it is God's chosen nation. God has purposefully put it through suffering as part of his plan to redeem it greatly in the end. One of his characters, Kirilov from the Possessed believed that Jesus Christ shall return in Russia, which is hardly an exaggeration of Dostoevksy's views.


INFJs also tend to be foolhardy about such convictions because Introverted Intuition is fundamental to their inner life. Thus their sense of self is often defined by their hunches, this gives them every reasoning to cling to them. Unlike a Thinking type, the INFJ is often unable to rationally analyze their hunches, thus this gives them another reason to cling to them as if their whole sense of self-worth is contingent upon them. Thinking, of course is sub-servient to Intuition and often only considers rationales that feel to be in favor of the vision and discard those that are not.

Extroverted Feeling evokes a feeling of appreciation for ideas that support the vision and a feeling of depreciation for those that do not. Such prejudice has been a powerful weapon to keep the INFJ frozen in their irrational vision.

Important note: The above problems could be rectified through cultivation of the facultes of Extroversion, Sensation and Thinking. Thus this is not 'fate' for the INFJ!

[Evan]

Yes, these are all potential problems for the INFJ. The trick is to develop both judging functions. These functions will throw out intuitions that either don't make sense or are not applicable to reality. Se is also a good function to develop, although it's much harder to tackle as it is essentially the opposite of Ni, the dominant.

That said, I'm definitely more divorced from reality than almost anyone I know. It all seems so arbitrary. Luckily, I have an easier time with Ti than any other INFJ I've interacted with, giving my internal world more order than one would guess. But this has come at the cost of developing my extroverted functions, and my biggest problem with life is implementing my ideas.

I honestly haven't come across any INFJs that are like what you are describing...or at least, none my age. That seems to be the extreme worst case.

More healthy INFJs are actually pretty well off. I'd consider dominant Ni a blessing; we can follow our own paths of thought further than most types, and as other functions are developed, we can have a world-view that is much more holistic than...well...any other type.

[SolitaryWalker]

Originally Posted by dissonance

I'd consider dominant Ni a blessing; we can follow our own paths of thought further than most types, and as other functions are developed, we can have a world-view that is much more holistic than...well...any other type.

Its true that Ni is very individualistic, though it doesnt easily follow a clear-cut path because the nature of this function is very amorphous. The quality you described is clearly attributable only to Ti.

[Evan]

Okay. But Ni feeds Ti an internal and depth based set of premises unlike the breadth based premises of Ne.

[Evan]

One huge problem with INFJs, though, is that it's quite hard for them to clearly express their ideas (ideas = induction(N) + deduction(T)) since both N and T are executed in internal language. Some extroverted function has to translate everything. NTs have at least one of T or N already in the language of the external world.

[SolitaryWalker]

Originally Posted by dissonance

Okay. But Ni feeds Ti an internal and depth based set of premises unlike the breadth based premises of Ne.

Yes this is the advantage the INFJ holds over NTPs, should Ti be soundly developed.

[Evan]

To get there, though, is the hard part...

Luckily my dad is INTP and discussed many ideas with me throughout my childhood

But yeah, the divorce from reality is still quite a problem. NTPs are better at ideas that pertain to current discussions, and better at articulation (generally).

[sleepless]

Oh well... I can see these problems, but it seems a little bit exaggerated to me. I have read some excerpts of Schopenhauer, and I think he has some interesting points (I didn't even know he was INFJ, by the way). What worries me about Dostoyevsky is the nationalism rather than the religious language. Remember that almost all people were religious at that time, not just Fs or INFJs. Religion in the past has always "made sense". So I don't think you can say that Dostoyevsky would have needed to spend more time with his T, and then everything would have been fine. Also don't neglect the great things many INFJs have done for the world, for example Nelson Mandela, Mohandas Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King. And this was probably also Dostoyevsky's aim, to help "save the world", though his compassion might have been narrowed down to "Russians".

I think the "salvation" for an INFJ lies in Se, if any function. I'm thinking of starting a thread on that some time.

I think we have to be respectful of each other's MBTI differences, or we could end up thinking "everyone should be my type". BlueWing, you seem to put a high value on logic and "the truth" in a Ti fashion. But an INFJ doesn't value that as highly, yet is often very concerned with the truth on another "wavelength". Also remember that Ni is the ultimate function for thinking outside the box, which I suppose is something you do value.

[edcoaching]

Originally Posted by BlueWing

Its true that Ni is very individualistic, though it doesnt easily follow a clear-cut path because the nature of this function is very amorphous. The quality you described is clearly attributable only to Ti.

Eh, i'd say that what you'd define as following a path of thought and what I'd define are two different things. Ti would be logical, mine would be pursuing the idea I've come up with to imaginary fruition, playing out scenarios in my head. The one I choose usually plays out well in reality.

Every type has a best, fully developed manifestation and every type can degenerate by falling into its traps. INTPs, for example, so intent on follow-through on clear solution to a problem that they don't consider the consequences if their solution falls into the hands of other people. Or (what I often end up coaching them on) difficulty relating to others through Fe which blocks effective implementation of their ideas.

[Lauren Ashley]

Eh, reality is overrated.

And so is 'thinking.'