INJs and Extroverted Sensing

[Martian Manifesto]

I started a previous thread on the INFJ & INTJ's dominant function: Ni

This thread is intended to explore the INJ's inferior function: Se

Let's start the discussion with something I am reading now. Don't want to make this too long so I will just give the main "manfestations" of an INJ "in the grip" of the inferior Se function. They are:

1) Obsessive focus on External Data

2) Overindulgence in Sensual Pleasures

3) Adversarial Attitude Toward the Outside World


All input welcome, serious and the not-so-serious

Enjoy and....attack!

[Martian Manifesto]

There are no INFJ haters out there? A whole thread on how we have a twisted relationship with our Se? Come on, I mean this is too perfect. Take at least one swipe. You'll feel better, I promise.

[heart]

A great post on Se in INFJ.

[Usehername]

Originally Posted by heart

A great post on Se in INFJ.

Can you please quote it here, Heart? You need to login to read.

[Martian Manifesto]

Originally Posted by Usehername

Can you please quote it here, Heart? You need to login to read.

Quote:
From "Was that Really Me?" by Naomi L Quenk, pp. 198-202

Jung (1976a) incorporates the three qualities of inferior Extraverted Sensing (obsessive focus on external data, overindulgence in sensual pleasures, and an adversarial attitude toward the outer world) in the following comment:

What the introverted intuitive represses most of all is the sensation of the object, and this colours his whole unconscious. It gives rise to a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality can best be described as an extraverted sensation type of a rather low and primitive order. Instinctuality and intemperance are the hallmarks of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence on sense-impressions. This compensates the rarefied air of the intuitive's conscious attitude. (p. 402)


Quote:
Obsessive Focus on External Data

Effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types are open to the widest variety of information from the environment--the more the better for them. Fully experiencing the outside world is their greatest pleasure. For an INTJ or INFJ in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, data from the outside world can seem overwhelming. Facts and details in the world demand the attention of the Introverted Intuitive type in the grip, so he or she obsesses about them. This may be experienced by both INTJs and INFJs as a state of intensity and drivenness. Their attempts to control the details in their environment are often expressed in such activities as feverishly cleaning the house, moving furniture, and organizing records and other materials. They may show an adamant concern about minute details and an unrelenting effort to control everything in their immediate vicinity.

An INFJ described her obsessiveness and withdrawal from her usual interests this way: "I stew about what's going on. I can't sit still and am restless. I am mentally fatigued and find myself compulsively putting things in order and trying to control everything around me." An INTJ said that when he is in this state, he feels like a top spinning faster and faster. If he is working with tools and getting frustrated and angry, he has learned that it is best for him to stop or he will get hurt or break something. An INFJ described "obsessing about details." He gave as an example:

When I'm using power tools that can cause injury, I will spend an inordinate amount of energy making sure that I'm not going to inadvertently hurt myself when I turn the thing on. I will triple-check to make sure my fingers are out of the way, etc. Usually I take in the world more globally and have less concern about details until I need them.

"I'm more likely to have accidents," said an INTJ. "I'm robotic, forget things, say things backwards;' I'm obsessed with a thought and can't get it out of my mind. I try to control situations and people and engage in strange behavior, like checking on things," said an INTJ woman. And another INTJ woman said, "I can become obsessed by detail. I'm less able to function aqnd make decisions--sort of paralyzed."

An INFJ said, "I alphabetize my compact discs; or suddenly it's time to do tha thing i thought about doing two months ago. I drop everything and do it; or I fixate on smells and sounds." "I organize or clean. I feel pressured and can't think clearly," reported another INFJ. "I nitpick about things in the environment. i bombard people verbally and obsess out loud."

An INTJ recalled the following from his childhood and adolescence:

When my studies were not going too well I would start to develop detailed tables of data, or drawings to support technical/science answers. These were frequently in too great detail, taking a lot of time and usually out of all proportion to the task ad the length of the answers sought--or even irrelevant to the original questions.

Often the external input that becomes the object of obsession is something someone said or even failed to say. When the last client on an unusually busy day left without saying her usual "See you next week," an INTJ therapist became convinced she had made a mistake during the psychotherapy session. She spent many hours going over the content of the session. She felt the only reason the client had not terminated theraqpy that day was politeness, so as not to hurt the therapist's feelings.

A common focus, particularly for INTJ and INFJ women, can be an aspect of their physical appearance. They may become convinced that they have prominent skin blemishes, that others are noticing that they don't dress very well, or that they look fat. In combination with the "overindulgence" manifestation described below, a powerful effect can occur.


Quote:
Overindulgence in Sensual Pleasures

In effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types, the enjoyment of sensual pleasures is natural, spontaneous, and quite consistent with their focus on the reality of the immediate environment. In Introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, this quality takes the form of sensual excess rather than sensual pleasure. It is interesting that a number of INTJs and INFJs described themselves as becoming "self-centered" and "self-indulgent" when they are in the grip--a descriptor often projected onto well-functioning Extraverted Sensing types by INTJs and INFJs (and by other types as well).

Overdoing gratification of the senses is a commonly mentioned behavior for INTJs and INFJs in the grip of their inferior function. they may overeat or binge. They see themselves as obsessively doing harm to their bodies. A typical "tactic" is to overindulge compulsively and immediately therafter--if not during the episode--berate themselves for their uncontrolled, shallow, destructive behavior.

An INTJ described the experience this way:

There is a clear preliminary state where I am totally apart from the real world. I am not even an observer, and I can completely ignore anything real. It's a nice fantasy, that's all--just abosrbing. But later I become excessively indulgent, getting totally immersed in physical experiences--eating, pulp fiction, TV. But I don't enjoy it. It feels like a dangerous roller coaster, but I'm immobilized and can't get off.

An INFJ said, "I have to get away from reality. I do too much of something--one thing. I eat more or stop eating; I shop for useless things." Another said, "I eat too much, spend too much, watch TV or read excessively to escape. I'm late for everything." An INTJ said her pattern is to overeat, fell guilty about it, wake up in the night and feel worse, get too little sleep, causing her to feel more vulnerable, and then eat more. Another INTJ feels bad about her overeating but not guilty: "I hate it when people brag about how much they exercise!" she said.


Quote:
Adversarial Attitude Toward the Outer World

Effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types approach the outer world with eager anticipation of all the wonderful experiences awaiting them. For introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, the immediate reality of the outer world spells difficulty and danger. They expect obstacles and problems to plague them as they move through a strange and potentially hostile environment.

Their hypersensitivity to potentially dangerous surroundings can promote uneasiness about people as well. "I can have negative forebodings and feel that people are against me," said an INTJ. An INFJ said she "becomes suspicious. Usually I'm tolerant, curious, and compassionate, so 'out of character' for me means I'm unaccepting and frustrated with the world."

An INTJ said, "I start tripping over things and feel out of control in the external world. I feel like I'm under a dark cloud. I get hung up on some false fact and distort it. I get stressed out about time--too many things and not enough time. I attack others with words and then feel guilty." An INFJ described herself as "shutting down, communicating very little. I misplace things, especially keys and watches. I'm very harsh, critical, not diplomatic. I lose my temper, obsess about details, organize, reorganize, yet nothing gets done."

Anticipating the worst can often elicit anger and blame in INTJs and INFJs. "I'm moody and gloomy, with sudden deep anger," said an INTJ. An INFJ also describes experiencing deep anger: "I am emotionally aroused and am terribly critical of others. I accuse people of never helping me. I become dogmatic and blast people with facts. If no one is around to attack, I write a scathing letter to someone." Another said, "I internally check off all the events that happened leading up to the 'conflict' and then I verbalize this list with a sense that the impeccable logic of it will convince others I am right and I will be vindicated."

The altered state of any inferior function is typically accompanied by a lessening of social controls and therefore more frequent expressions of anger. However, the character of the anger may be different for different types. For INTJs and INFJs the "cause" of distress is often one or more "objects" in the environment. The anger directed at either things or people may therefore be more focused, intense, and extreme than with other inferior functions. Introverted intuitive types may be unable to recognize alternative possibilities so that their perspective becomes extremely narrow. This tunnel vision and externalization of blame can produce ruthless results.

One INTJ said, "I get into verbal raving and am out of control. I regress emotionally and act childish. I feel anxious, exposed, childlike." Another INTJ said, "If I bump my head on a cupboard, I get mad at the world for putting a cupboard there. Others think I'm cursing at myself--but it's really at the inconsideration or stupidity of the cupboard being there." An INFJ observed, "I am angry, unreasonable, totally irrational, closed-minded, and impatient. I feel vulnerable and then become angry at others for it. I can't communicate with anyone. I am hard, callous, unfeeling, and I have not energy to be bothered with anyone else."

[Haphazard]

Originally Posted by Martian Manifesto

Another INTJ said, "If I bump my head on a cupboard, I get mad at the world for putting a cupboard there. Others think I'm cursing at myself--but it's really at the inconsideration or stupidity of the cupboard being there."

F$%@ing cupboards!

[Martian Manifesto]

Originally Posted by Haphazard

F$%@ing cupboards!

I know, right?

[Kyrielle]

Sounds about right. I tend to obsess over things when I'm presented with dangerous objects like knives, power tools, and cars. I'm like that one INFJ that obsessively checks to make sure every precaution has been taken to make sure one cannot be harmed by accident. Though I also think it's due to my awareness of my tendency to space out at the worst times (I'm very afraid of zoning out in the car while driving and forgetting to also drive or missing a cue).

And that cupboard thing, yeah...there have been many poor objects that randomly get kicked and shouted at irrationally for being there or not working properly. *cough* Like my router and internet service provider. *cough*

INJs are scary when they get out of control with Se.

[Trinity]

Originally Posted by Martian Manifesto

Quote:
From "Was that Really Me?" by Naomi L Quenk, pp. 198-202

Holy crap! That's called unhealthy Se not an inferior function.

[Athenian200]

I lose control in some ways. I might throw something, or curse/insult someone or something (on the angry side). On the sad side, I might just spend all day in bed watching television... possibly even throwing out everything I had planned to do that day in order to do so. I might also consume a lot of snacks or something.

I'm pretty sure I still wouldn't do something like spend money I couldn't actually afford, or actually do something I considered wrong/dangerous for myself (other than harm/insult other people, of course). For some reason, all my restraints that aren't related to other people remain intact. I almost wish it were the other way around.