An INTP observation about NF

[SquirrelTao]

What I've run into in my deepest arguments is that I've found that people have had a hard time understanding what I meant. And so then I've been thrown back on myself and how inadequate I am as an educator and communicator. And then I've given thought to how best to educate or communicate. And then I've concluded that my time is better spent being creative. Debating takes energy away from being creative. This goes for the debates about which I care the most.

And then there are other reasons why people are not persuaded. Maybe they understand but they find it impractical. So then maybe energy is better spent problem-solving than debating.

What does debate accomplish? (Even though I like to debate and to follow debates, and I often learn from debates. Okay, maybe debate can lead sometimes to education and persuasion.)

[placebo]

I don't see it as hypocritical. Unless I see those 'values' as detrimental, in which case I will probably have no trouble speaking up, it's in the end, THEIR values. Also, sometimes it may be a bit of anxiety that prevents me from speaking up, but a lot of other times I just don't know how to translate what I understand into verbal articulation, if you know what I mean. It's a pain!

[snowflurri]

Well, as an NF giving people the benefit of the doubt doesn't necessarily mean that I don't want to defend my values.
Usually I just want to get along with everybody and not create conflict over a small matter. Everyone has different values, so as long as I believe in the values I hold myself to, a little disagreement is ok.

I only tend to defend my values strongly if someone has REALLY offended me.

[Dwigie]

I pretty much won't voice my opinion if people are stepping all over my values but I'll make a note to avoid any contact with that person or to take a huge distance.If the attack is directed at me I keep silent at first but then I go on a "secret hunt" picking apart every single flaw in his or her statement or that condradict my values and next time he or she opens his mouth: let it snow.
I actually keep this task" undergoing for varied periods of time and do this pretty quietly so no one can guess that I'm actually extremely angry or what not. And I won't lie...I'd like to change his or her side someday and get him/her on my side but I won't actively do so...it's their choice. On the other hand if I am arguing I don't give up until I have the last word.

[Martoon]

Originally Posted by Cypocalypse

One downside I noticed about NFs (the ethical side formed by the N and the F), is their lack of will to fight for the values they hold for themselves. It's like you're giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

It's like you have a clear notion of your understanding of what is bad and what is good, but....you can get a bit hesitant in talking about it in fear of....I don't know. Hurting someone, perhaps?

Isn't it a bit hypocritical if...for example...you give a benefit of the doubt to someone whose values may be even considerably contrary to what you believe in?

I find it a little ironic to hear this coming from an INTP. Fighting for our values isn't exactly our strong point.

I think the best and noblest thing a person can do, regarding values, is to have strong values, and to consistently live by them (even when it's difficult), but to respect other people having different values, and to not expect them to live by yours.

If someone else's values are considerably contrary to what you believe in, that's when you should especially give them the benefit of the doubt.

The exception to all this is when someone is violating other people (or creatures) in some way. In that case, it's appropriate to take action and make a point. Is this what you're referring to?

[am_i_evil666]

it depends. sometimes, i do fight for my values or my opinions, so to say. but other times, simply i'm not in the mood for arguing with people....that's the main reason why i don't do this. but when i do argue with someone, i stand up for my values.