Why Do NFs Apologize So Much?

[Skyward]

Originally Posted by cherchair

Really? I do know that I'm ridiculously conflict-avoidant, but I don't necessarily do a lot of apologizing unless I sense I've hurt someone. Instead, I tend to go along with things and be pretty laidback until someone crosses one of my lines and then, dear God, Katie bar the door! Even then, I sometimes don't confront the other person but will just disappear for however long it takes me to get over the line-crossing (sometimes I never do).

I realize how P-A this all sounds, so clearly it's something I need to work on. Sometimes if I can take the time to write down my thoughts on an issue, I can go back and be--well, not confrontational--but make my position clear without the need to apologize.

This is me also. I used to have a VERY low patience threshhold when I was little, though. I used to extraordinarily easy piss off or send into an emo crying fit until about 7th grade (About the time I left public school to this charter school... coincidence?) I still have more physically reactive to my feelings (If I get frustrated enough I hit things) than most people I know, but I guess that's my kind of 'be yourself, it's all you truly own' philosophy backfiring on me.

For me, saying sorry is a big thing. I wont say sorry unless I truly don't want to do whatever I did again. This requires my to have changed my view on the person I need to apologize to (There are some people that it would take a LOT of motivation to get me to apologize to.)

[mr.awesome]

my mother recently got very upset with me for apologizing for something. dont remember what, i think it was moreso the excess of unnecessary apologies haha. thats a correct assumption though.

[ladypinkington]

I even apologize to furniture when I bump into them, because everything has feelings that are important to me,lol.

I apologize whenever I feel I need to take ownership of a flaw and whenever I feel I have violated my personal values or have even have made the threat of hurting someone else's feelings. I apologize a lot it seems because I reflect so much I am hyper aware of my flaws, values, and am hyperly sensitive to my and other people's feelings.

[neptunesnet]

Originally Posted by ladypinkington

I even apologize to furniture when I bump into them, because everything has feelings that are important to me.

This.

And I have a tendency to apologize to animals, pets if I trip other them or something.

It may hurt them, you know.

[fidelia]

Over time, I've gotten much better at not backing down so much. For me it has to do with not pursuing conflict with someone unless it is important enough and will impact our relationship enough to warrant it (or conversely if it's a complete stranger who is way overstepping their bounds). Even as a small child (whose parents were not at all heavy handed), I could not stand the weight of blame of any kind and would do just about anything to get out from under it. When debating something, I usually tend to look for common ground before branching out from there to where we are different.

Probably most useful to me has been realizing how terribly annoying some types find someone who is overly accommodating and apologetic. In understanding that I actually am making things better by sticking to my guns, it makes it easier to do so. I think that first happened when I had an employer who barked at me for saying sorry too much and...I said sorry for saying sorry! I now tend to look at what type of person I am talking to and tailor my style of interaction to how they are likely to take it. Therefore I'm much blunter and more direct with NTs than I might be with another NF.

I've also learned that since many T types tend to only bend/suck up as much stuff as they feel they can without resentment, they assume that other types also do that. This isn't always the case. After five years dating an ESTJ, I finally realized that my bending would not be reciprocated when I felt it was really important and that I needed to speak up a lot sooner before I felt things were quite uneven and I had a lot of resentment built up.

Intellectually, I understand that a T criticizing my opinions or what I hold dear is actually a fairly impersonal thing to them. They don't understand how much it feels like making fun of or discounting who I am at my very core. In practice, I don't always initially put that understanding into practice well, but I at least know that I need to.

[Chunes]

Matching the push as you put it is something that I see as something I could be judged harshly for. I see it as a disservice, as something hurtful to the other person. It has to be made VERY CLEAR to me that you want me to engage in a hypothetical conversation in which I am expected to push back, but that it's only for FUN and that no offense will be taken. Even then, I probably won't believe you and will revert to my normal behavior. This is deep, ingrained stuff. Can't really change it. Yes, it's annoying at times, but it's me.

If you want someone to push you back, go challenge an ESTJ. I'm not here to push you. You'll push me and I'll fall over like a wet noodle and you'll push me some more and I'll smush into the ground and you'll like it!

When you're done trying to dominate me maybe you'll come to your senses and realize I only wanted to hug you the whole time.

[Wild horses]

Well I am a bit of a wreck of a person... habitually late... always lost something... crap at remembering birthdays and other details that people seem to like u to remember blah, yawn, blah so I always guessed that I have alot to apologise for! On a more serious note I think it is to do with the perception of feelings.... and so even if you are not in the wrong if someone (Be that a person, a dog or a desk ) is feeling bad you may feel compelled to apologise... You may not even be ssaying I'm sorry for what I did... You may just be saying, I'm sorry that you're feeling bad

[HollyGolightly]

I feel I mess up all the time so I apologise. Then someone tells me off for apologising and I apologise for apologising and it goes on and on...

With me I think it's down to a lack of self esteem. I don't know about other NFs but I'm quite insecure and not very self-assured, so sometimes I feel I have to apologise if I think what I'm about to say might cause offense or oppose other people's views in some way (I start a lot of sentences with "I'm sorry but..." when expressing my P.O.V).
I'm very careful not to hurt other people's feelings.
And when apologising for a sudden outburst of emotion...it's because I want to be able to "hold it together" and I find it shameful when I can't. I even used to apologise to my counsellor for getting emotional! ;P

[Afkan]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Sigh. The one thing I see in common in literally every NF I talk to online or in real life is that, as soon as they come out with a strong reaction to something, as soon as I push back on it (in a nice but firm way), they back-pedal and just seem to fold on me.

(I think Toonie is the only NF I can think of off the top of my head who does not consistently do this... but she always had to be different, you know. )

Sometimes NFs apologize to me just for expressing their viewpoint. My one RL friend apologizes to me for "getting angry" or "raising his voice" -- and somehow I missed his entire debacle. Even his worst outrages don't even equal half of the normal human being's slight glimmer of irritation.

I love y'all to death, NFs are some of my favorite people! Definitely more sufferable than some of the NTJ stuff that goes on.

But I don't understand. Why? I mean, I even love how sensitive NFs are to people in general... but sometimes it gets frustrating, when I want to talk about something or a discussion really needs to be had, or would be beneficial, so I "push" a little bit or just plunge into the conversation -- and instead of matching the push, the NFs just melt away.

Just... Oh, I don't know.

We seek harmony. But that doesn't mean anti-conflict- I like to approach conflict head-on, feel very comfortable with confrontation.

The kinda stuff XNTPs push back on seem to poke at our insecurities. Like about not being accurate, or precise. We know we overdramatize/exaggerate/pretend the worlds a much better place than it is. But hate to face the fact, its depressing.

Ti is depressing, if its not familiar, to an NF. Its like opening your eyes in a room completely void of light, after living an entire life of light and happy sunshine. You get what I mean, right? I don't think Ti is a complete representation of reality, but it is reality, not idealism.

The Xntps in my life have shared w/me what they are trying to illicit, just a friendly intellectually stimulating conversation. With practice I have really come to enjoy that sort of thing. Prior to practice, i always thought a close entp friend (for example) was just prodding for structural deficiencies in our convos.

Conflict is different... and SJs are the most conflict shy imo.

[PeaceBaby]

An old thread ... brought back to life!

My first reaction to the post title:

I'm sorry, do we apologize too much?