Fi -- Why does it drive you nuts?

[noigmn]

Originally Posted by lorkan

noigm: There are 2 reasons why I am "too" calm. And It's either because I am aloof at the moment (not feeling worth nor necessity for emotional energy), or It could be that I try to disciplin my emotional reactions (outwardly). Why I would want that is because I don't want to appear to clingy (or "unstable" as I've heard thinkers say to me) in an otherwise neutral situation.

We seem like thinkers sometimes, but we aren't. We actually don't mind clingy. It is way cooler than distant. And random and unstable is our middle name. Biggest prob between our types is neither of us being comfortable enough to be like that around eachother. Our difference in cognitive functions unsettles eachother when they get a bit out of harmony and we go into our shells (yes, ENFPs go into shells too). It can be like positive feedback, each of our reactions breaches something at the core of the other and the other goes into defense mode and does the same. After you know eachother for a while and learn a bit about eachother this becomes more rare. I still feel like I'm watching an INFJ attach to everyone else better and seem more clingy with everyone else, even when you know you are closer friends and their long term behaviour says otherwise. According to socionics we are meant to be great thinking partners, but romantically cold with eachother.

[placebo]

Fi drives me nuts because it's easily misunderstood by others. It's not something that is easily translated into words or any outward form of expression, yet it's so strongly felt and sensed internally.

I Googled and I like this description of the Introverted Feeling type to explain why dominant Fi can drive people nuts:

The Introverted Feeling Type

Introverted feeling strives for an inner intensity that is unrelated to any external object. It devalues objective reality and is rarely displayed openly. When it does appear on the surface, it generally seems negative or indifferent. The focus of such feeling is upon inner processes and latent, primordial images. At its extreme, it may develop into mystical ecstasy.

The introverted feeling type is brooding and inaccessible, although may also hide behind a childish mask. Such a person aims to be inconspicuous, makes little attempt to impress and generally fails to respond to the feelings of others. The outer, surface appearance is often neutral, cold and dismissive. Inwardly, however, feelings are deep, passionately intense, and may accompany secret religious or poetic tendencies. The effect of all this on other people can be stifling and oppressive. When extreme or neurotic, this type may become domineering and vain. Negative repressed thinking may also be projected so that these persons may imagine they can know what others are thinking. This may develop into paranoia and into secret scheming rivalries.

from Jungian Psychological Type

It sounds like a rather negative description, but I think it's pretty spot on, and I can actually relate to it.

[Uytuun]

It gives me pwinciples.

It gives me knots in my stomach I can't ignore.

[noigmn]

Introverted feeling strives for an inner intensity that is unrelated to any external object

This surprised me at first because it makes it sound like we are ignorant. But the statement is completely true and makes a lot of sense because it is an introverted function. Introverted feeling is not from any moral code like the bible, or any symbolism from art, or any poetic idea, or the lighting in the room, or the words you have just heard, or the gift someone gave you last week. But it acknowledges them all. And appreciates things about them all. It observes the external world, but isn't of it.

[krentz]

Apologies for not first introducing myself before posting here, as I usually frequent other forums yet upon seeing this discussion felt compelled to contribute.

Firstly I would like to thank BlueWing among others for his in depth analysis of the Fi function in general... seems to be very well thought out and covers both the positive and negative aspects. It seems somehow irrelevant to determine whether Fi or Fe is the most empathetic function; what does this matter? Possibly for ego validation or due to personally held values or beliefs (or irritations from people who use one or the other in general) but then I would wager to say that in order to be truly empathetic you have to be able to look beyond your own psychological construct in order to appreciate how other people see the world, and how it is not always in alignment with your own views. I personally see both as being empathetic, but in different ways.

Sometimes I am quite touched or inspired by people who use Fe well because they are able to be more expressive with regard to their feelings and often can work quite well as a conflict mediator or negotiator. This is something I've started working on. However, I can sometimes find the preoccupation with the group mentality (which in itself is irrelevant to me until I realise that it does carry importance for other people) somewhat frustrating, and I will have little difficulty ignoring external boundaries if I believe that the person in general would benefit from a neutral and empathetic ear, or hand, or miscellaneous body part. I think that, with a powerful dominant Fi, I am almost never ignorant of how I feel and continually introspect and analyse on a regular basis, and that I can use this awareness to shed some light on how others feel too. I do believe in a 'universal self', or a set of basic human standards that are common to every person that exists (although some of them will not apply to psychopaths or other mentally disordered people). I am also aware however that just because a person feels a particular way (shared perception through Fi) doesn't mean they will do so for the same reasons I would. Still doesn't give me the right to dismiss the validity of their feelings regarding anything, although if I feel they are harmful to the person in that they are causing them problems and undue psychological stress, or they do not align with objective reality, then I will attempt to help them work through their issues.

It strikes me as somewhat funny that it is my Fi in the first place which prompts me to engage my secondary and inferior functions. I always thought of myself as perceptive and somewhat intelligent, as well as empathetic and sensitive (much more obviously so in my childhood!). I knew however that in order to help or change the world, or people, in any beneficial ways I would have to have a broader understanding of things in general, so I developed my Ne and Te with those in mind. My Ti isn't fantastic, and my Se is barely used at all, but I know N like the back of my hand, and I'm trying to develop my other functions. You know, personal development and all that.

Regarding the, uh, 'minefield', I can't say that it isn't there. However I've attempted to take a more considerate approach with regard to others, because let's face it, people aren't psychic and it isn't always fair to others to explode on them just because they weren't aware they were offending you. Communication is important. I am particularly wary of this degenerating into overt conflict however as just because I am able to understand something doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I often find my Fi, especially my values and sense of self are absolutely steadfast in certain ways, though in others I am constantly analysing them to figure out if what I know is really 'me', if it makes sense or is fair, and if that is okay. I also know, though, that while I will always live my life through the spectrum of Fi it isn't always fair to hold others to the same standards and values that I have. Yet there will still be certain opinions that I will simply not change, and I believe that's important. While I would be willing to discuss these with others so they could understand, they won't convince me to change my mind, and repeated expression often gets tiresome. Blargh, it's an internal debate most of the time.

It's somewhat of a shame that the inner intensity of feelings pervades my consciousness so thoroughly, yet even as I embrace them for what they are, they're impossible to communicate in absolute terms, though it often adds flavour to my discourse and writing. Only another developed Fi could truly understand what I mean though, and that's because it's self contained in nature... frustrating, yet empowering.

Originally Posted by noigmn

I wouldn't worry about being good enough. The fact we don't have a good enough measurement is more the problem. That is another thing lost in translation. We just don't stop exploring or place limits on what we question. Thing is you don't have to care, because it is for our own entertainment and enlightenment, rather than to judge you. If we aren't doing it consciously and saying it, it is happening subconsciously anyway. It doesn't really turn off. Luckily ENFPs are pretty non-judgmental and aren't competitive or achievement based. If someone says that guy is a bisexual sociopath with 5 arms who wants to take over the world, we say cool, I've never met one of them before. The more intricate and weird you are the better . The more we see of something the more we appreciate and love it for what it is.

Just to clarify though. The times when we will get judgy it will be about control or interpersonal stuff. If we think anything is destructive to people around you on a more than superficial level or is restricting them from reaching their potential, then we judge. But we judge on that action, not on the fact you are also something else that society disapproves of. And we don't hold judgment on that action later unless we believe it is present again. The whole no two situations are the same thing.

Yes, definitely, although I can be competitive (on a personal level, I compare myself to others, yet strive only to better myself). I only judge actions, not people! In fact, sometimes I feel that others expect me to harbour grudges or resentment towards others, and that just doesn't happen, because I believe in the virtues of forgiveness and understanding. Please note however - while I wouldn't immediately set out to deconstruct the sociopath, mostly because they'd be very f**king dangerous, if they're set on taking over the world I wouldn't be very comfortable doing nothing, as I know what would happen. All the bisexual 5 armed bollocks is fine though, as you say, the more interesting the better!