what do you NF's think about ENT's?

[CzeCze]

Originally Posted by hotmale

Just curious, CzeCze, but what is a pseudo Ivy League college? Is that like in Kansas or something?

Hahahah, no but your question made my day.

Yeah, in my limited experience I think ENTP/ENFP is made for a bit of tension. I mean, I feel like I have a little ENTP inside of me, and god knows I experience a lot of personal tension. (This was a joke, btw.)

And two attention whore types but with one's T and another's F constantly chasing each other around and never meeting eye to eye to understand one another -- doesn't make for a lot of harmony.

Plus, I was and am WAAAAAYYY better at being an attention whore than she was.

[briar]

I'm sure that I know three ENTP's. One I find to be horriblypretentious -- to the point that it makes many people dislike him. Indeed, all three are rather socially awkward. I've noticed that they often don't notice how their know-it-all, devil's advocate attitude can affect negatively. Sometimes I almost feel sorry for those three particular ENTP's, because they are E's, but they can't seem to understand why people aren't always in awed by cleverness.

I do have a light-weight friendship with one ENTJ, which is based mostly on humor, and brief intellectual chat. For the most part, I am intimidated by the idea of ENTJ's (and INTJ's for that matter). They are so grandiose and competent that I am afraid that I will never meet their standards; however, I do greatly admire both those qualities in the ENTJ.

[LadyJaye]

All of my closest friends are NT's - my best friend is a female ENTJ, and we're simpatico. ( Although, when we first met in school, we hated each other, go figure. ) The upside to ENTJ's is the downside - their conviction, grounded in logic, is rarely wrong from a data intensive standpoint, and often they are used to people conceding with them on most matters. So they're basically used to being right most of the time, and I believe that it can turn into arrogance if not moderated. Also, they may be blind to the possibility that they are human beings, and that feelings do indeed affect their thinking at points, and that not all of their "logical" thought processes are actually, well, logical.

I personally don't have a lawyerly format to my mode of thinking, but I understand the NT's need for information to be presented in a rational, unemotional way, so I try to accomodate that when I can.

[substitute]

I think it depends on age/generation.

Quite a few of the women I sorta deal with are NF's of an older generation - over 65 and some over 80. I tend to find they're more easy-going and tolerant about what they see as just 'men being men'. This could be because of the different world they grew up in, different values, or just maturity and experience teaching them what's worth getting het up about and what isn't.

But I invariably find that the women who object to me most strongly are younger women, whilst with older ones I get along swimmingly, all types. And considering that my role models whilst learning how to find my place in society as a male have all been older gentlemen - ex-army officers in their 70's and priests and monks etc - there might also be an element of me thinking like one of the older women's generation, perhaps leading to a weird kind of 'generation gap' in thinking between me and women my own age.

This could be why I've often seen a younger woman ranting and outraged about 'rude/insensitive' behaviour from a man, and there's an older woman shushing her and calming her down by saying she shouldn't take it so much to heart, it's just the way men are and they don't mean anything by it.

Just a theory... not saying this is right or a good way to be or anything, just an observation.

[Domino]

I relate to the cold inner Fury of my ENTJ best friend. She'll call me up, demanding "What the hell is so good about being the way we are, Megan?! Being a J-function is terrible!! Dammit!! Dammit!! Dammit!!" I tell her she should have been Queen Elizabeth in another life. She would have made a perfect regent.

She attacks things with a singular methodical almost murderous energy that has zero to do with emotion. A certain matter or incident will trip the trigger with us both, but it'll be coming from two entirely different angles. We'll both say "[he/she/it] needed killin'..." (to rip-off Strom Thurmond's dad): ENTJ -- for practical reasons and because he's clearly an inferior lifeform; ENFJ -- because he violated some inimitable human law and I have to right it. She's dispassionate while I'm going up in a wall of flame. But we have a meeting of the minds at any rate.

I'd lose my bearings without ENTPs around, but I've said enough about them already.

[CzeCze]

Originally Posted by substitute

I think it depends on age/generation.

Quite a few of the women I sorta deal with are NF's of an older generation - over 65 and some over 80. I tend to find they're more easy-going and tolerant about what they see as just 'men being men'. This could be because of the different world they grew up in, different values, or just maturity and experience teaching them what's worth getting het up about and what isn't.

But I invariably find that the women who object to me most strongly are younger women, whilst with older ones I get along swimmingly, all types. And considering that my role models whilst learning how to find my place in society as a male have all been older gentlemen - ex-army officers in their 70's and priests and monks etc - there might also be an element of me thinking like one of the older women's generation, perhaps leading to a weird kind of 'generation gap' in thinking between me and women my own age.

This could be why I've often seen a younger woman ranting and outraged about 'rude/insensitive' behaviour from a man, and there's an older woman shushing her and calming her down by saying she shouldn't take it so much to heart, it's just the way men are and they don't mean anything by it.

Just a theory... not saying this is right or a good way to be or anything, just an observation.

Hmm..I've also seen this obervation a bit but more from a cross-cultural than generational standpoint. I think this is mostly women who have given up and had enough negative outcomes in trying to change male behavior and have learned through desensitization "not to care" about something. This is exacerbated by being taught growing up to tolerate a lot of stuff from guys because "men are men" and women are long-suffering. And I think at that age (60s-80s) you just have learned to let a lot of things go as a quality of life issue. I'm sure when I'm 80 I won't get nearly as worked up about things simply because I don't have the energy reserves and I want to enjoy the time I have!

From an older Anglo-American female standpoint, I don't' have a lot of experience with women in that age range, but maybe from 40s-50s and it's not quite the same. I've found mostly they will just nod their heads and go "yep, that's dumbass behavior" but not seem outwardly bothered because they are so used to it said "bad behvior". But they will at most commiserate with the younger woman. At that age, 40s-50s, they're probably entering the point of giving up which will let them sail into their golden years without unecessary stress over things they feel they can't change.

Personally, there is a fine line for me between "people are people" and people getting away with bullshit behavior indiscriminately. So I do put a value judgement on these differences as well as see it as a generational and cultural difference.

My biggest problem with the ''men are men" argument is that it's used injudiciously to EVERYTHING "a man behaving badly" does, from not calling a woman back ever, to not remembering anniversaries, to drinking too heavily, to beating girlfriends, it's a huge Free Pass. And I don't believe in Free Passes.