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#11 (permalink) |
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The Doctor is IN
Join Date: Apr 2007
Type: INtP
Location: Free at last.
Posts: 14,307
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I find the reading interesting, but it's raising questions in my mind: Namely, why are all the type descriptions (not just yours) focused on what seems to be "immature" members of the type?
I suppose it is for ease of exploring the raw basic personality before any functions become developed -- we are clarifying how all the functions generally originate and interact with each other -- but in terms of identification, the systematic description is only useful to recognize raw/immature people of the type in question. Namely, when you began talking about Te, well, my mind leaps to INFPs I know who actually have a mature Te developed. They are still clearly INFP, running off Fi+Ne as their main function combination; but their Te is mature enough that sometimes they have even confused themselves about how best they should spend their efforts. (Recently one told me he had not really understood why he was getting frustrated being an organizational leader, because he did that sort of thing so well... but his real heart was in the personal interaction with others and helping to actualize them and affirm/encourage them. Very personal ministry, rather than "behind the scenes / get things done" activity. He felt vindicated and "released" when I described to him the sort of person he seemed to be to me, function-wise, and how it made a great deal of sense for him to want to be more personal, because that is what I saw as his strength, and the organizational skills were definitely something he had, but they were not really his main desire in how he wanted to relate to others.) In any case, why are INTPs always assumed to have a lousy Fe? Yes, they start that way; but if you're trying to recognize an *adult* INTP with some relational experience, the Fe will have to become a notable part of the description, not constantly described as a weakness and to coach people in what "flaws" to look for... because perhaps the INTP is now more well-rounded. And the same goes for the rest of the types.. Maybe we need "stages" for types, very much like butterflies, with a larval stage and some intermediate, then a final actualized stage flitting about.
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Iconoclast
Join Date: Apr 2007
Type: INTP
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
The underdeveloped part is accentuated because the Te acts like an underdeveloped function most of the time, rather than as developed. That is due to the fact that we tend not to be good with our inferior function. We can have a few runs of success here and there, but the energy from quality inferior function work, even if we are capable of this, is drawn away in favor of the higher up functions.
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'And the great deadly serpent Superstition, bred of fear and ignorance, keeps watch on the treasure of knowledge. Only he who has slain the serpent and knows not fear can bestride Odin's horse and ride through the wall of fire; only he who wields Odin's sword can draw near to that sleeping might and beauty, and sunder the stifling links of mail, and show the divine face to men.' 'To be a philosopher,you must first be a Spinozist; if you have not Spinozism, you have no philosophy at all' Hegel |
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#13 (permalink) |
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Iconoclast
Join Date: Apr 2007
Type: INTP
Posts: 2,527
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Any further ideas?
__________________
'And the great deadly serpent Superstition, bred of fear and ignorance, keeps watch on the treasure of knowledge. Only he who has slain the serpent and knows not fear can bestride Odin's horse and ride through the wall of fire; only he who wields Odin's sword can draw near to that sleeping might and beauty, and sunder the stifling links of mail, and show the divine face to men.' 'To be a philosopher,you must first be a Spinozist; if you have not Spinozism, you have no philosophy at all' Hegel |
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Fragmented Being
Join Date: Jul 2007
Type: InfJ
Location: C:\
Posts: 5,781
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The entire point is, you can/should only use your weaker functions in ways that serve the higher ones. If you try to liberate them too much, they'll either wear you out, or cause you to do something you regret. But of course that doesn't mean they shouldn't be developed at all, just that they should be used minimally/in moderation.
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"I'm not much more than an interpreter, and not very good at telling stories. Well, not at making them interesting, anyways." --C3-P0, Star Wars IV: A New Hope |
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#15 (permalink) | ||||||||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Type: INfp
Posts: 314
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(edit/append: 26 Oct 07) The concept of wanting to feel appreciated is something I struggle with. I do have such desires, but that often feels selfish to me and so I tell myself and sometimes others that "having done what I thought felt right was the only important part", but I'd say I'm being at least somewhat deceitful/delusional in not accepting my internal desire to feel appreciated, but much like actions taken for others, the meaningfulness of appreciation is proportional to how important the person in question is to me - appreciation by strangers is nice, but comparatively trivial, while feeling appreciated by friends is a lot more meaningful to me. What I'm appreciated for also has weigh in that consideration. Being appreciated for "something anyone could have done" is a lot less meaningful to me than being appreciated for something I put my heart and mind into (I want to be appreciated for the things that make me different, and likewise prefer to value and praise others for their unique qualities so that they know someone appreciates them for who they are, not merely what they do for others.). Quote:
(edit/append: 26 Oct 07) A lot of ideas that seem clear in my mind are hard to share with others because they would require so many unusual and/or unlikely conditions to exist that even trying to explain what I see could be is problematic because I would also have to go through detailed explanations of how it could be made to be and why I think its a good idea (that also may lead to further misunderstandings). Sometimes I feel strongly in an idea and attempt to enter the world of thinking to try to put structure to the idea to present it in a way that others might understand, but even then, my ideas and intent are often misunderstood. Sometimes explaining them in the form of "let me tell you about this strange dream I had" can work to present an idea without harsh value judgments of others, but since they usually came as a result of active exploration of ideas and playing through scenarios in my head, that creates an authenticity value conflict so I really don't feel comfortable with that approach either. (Edit/Append: 26 Oct 07 - Continuing above comparison to Bluewing's INFP description) Quote:
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New comments after reading revision of Si and Te The new descriptions for Si and Te have more in them that I can relate to, but I still maintain that logic is something i see as something that either is or is not and not somethign that is felt. When I look at a wrench, I say this is a wrench, and I may say it feels like the right tool for the job, but I don't say it feels like a wrench, that just seems like an odd way to look at things to me. Quote:
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#16 (permalink) | |
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Iconoclast
Join Date: Apr 2007
Type: INTP
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
Thanks for the feedback. It seems like you have managed to gain proficiency with the Extroverted Thinking faculty if you do not identify with the logically maladjusted INFP persona. Our inferior function means that our mind unconscious processes it the least and devotes the least amount of energy. This does render acquiring skill with such a function difficult, though far from impossible. INFPs who are not competent with Te will strive to avoid it as much as possible. INFPs who do tend to see it as a necessary evil, as they still tend to enjoy it little--yet, they are able to recognize situations that require logical analysis and apply the due procedure. If you have a good handle on your Te, it is highly likely that you are even more proficient with your Si.
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'And the great deadly serpent Superstition, bred of fear and ignorance, keeps watch on the treasure of knowledge. Only he who has slain the serpent and knows not fear can bestride Odin's horse and ride through the wall of fire; only he who wields Odin's sword can draw near to that sleeping might and beauty, and sunder the stifling links of mail, and show the divine face to men.' 'To be a philosopher,you must first be a Spinozist; if you have not Spinozism, you have no philosophy at all' Hegel |
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#17 (permalink) |
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Iconoclast
Join Date: Apr 2007
Type: INTP
Posts: 2,527
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Any further takes?
I am looking for constructive criticism. Non-critical feedback is fine too, however.
__________________
'And the great deadly serpent Superstition, bred of fear and ignorance, keeps watch on the treasure of knowledge. Only he who has slain the serpent and knows not fear can bestride Odin's horse and ride through the wall of fire; only he who wields Odin's sword can draw near to that sleeping might and beauty, and sunder the stifling links of mail, and show the divine face to men.' 'To be a philosopher,you must first be a Spinozist; if you have not Spinozism, you have no philosophy at all' Hegel |
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#19 (permalink) | |
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heart on fire
Join Date: May 2007
Type: INFP
Posts: 7,350
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Quote:
INFJ and INFP to my view appear very different, although it seems common to present them as very close in presentation.
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5w4 sx/sp People understand me so poorly that they don't even understand my complaint about them not understanding me. Soren Kierkegaard |
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#20 (permalink) |
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homo-loving sonovagun
Join Date: Jul 2007
Type: infp
Location: Up there
Posts: 901
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This reminds me of some packing advice I once heard: lay everything you think you'll need for your trip on the bed. And then take away half of it.
I really want to read your post, but it's too long. I'm being serious. Cut it in half then I'll read it. Brevity is the soul of wit.
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There's reason to be afraid, and reason to open your heart. ~ Seal Refreshment for your ears: www.kexp.org |
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