User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10

  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default ENTJ personality type descritpion

    Disclaimer: This essay inquires only into the unconscious tendencies of the ENTJ type and not into personalities frequently associated with this persona. Or in other words, I am merely trying to describe the unconscious tendencies of the ENTJ and have no interest in people and personalities in possession of this type.

    Definitions
    Extroversion: The attitude of defining the self by external standards. Seeks conformity to the external world.
    Introversion: The attitude of defining the self by internal standards, seeks to persuade the world to conform to the inner vision.
    Thinking: Utilization impersonal criteria for decision-making.
    Feeling: Utilization of an interpersonal criteria for decision making.
    Intuition: Unconscious faculty of abstract collection of information.
    Sensation: Unconscious faculty of concrete collection of information.



    I.Extroverted Thinking
    “As a consequence of the general attitude of extroversion, thinking is oriented by the object and objective data. This gives rise to a noticeable peculiarity. Thinking in general is fed on the one hand from subjective and in the last resort unconscious sources, and on the other hand from objective data transmitted by sense-perception. Extraverted Thinking is conditioned in a larger measure by the latter than by the former. Judgment always presupposes a criterion; for the extroverted judgment, the criterion supplied by external conditions is the valid and determining one, no matter whether it be represented directly by an objective , perceptible by fact or by an objective idea; for an objective idea is equally determined by external data or borrowed from outside even when it is subjectively conditioned. Extroverted Thinking, therefore need not necessarily be concretistic; it can just as easily be purely ideal thinking, if for instance it can be shown that the ideas it operates with are largely borrowed from outside, ie, have been transmitted by tradition and education.” Psychological types P.342


    Extroverted Thinking, much like Extroverted Feeling is a faculty of radical Extroversion. What this shows is that it derives its methodology and identity primarily from the outside. As is well known, an Extrovert is most stimulated by the external environment. Hence, the Extroverted Thinker need not be only concrete and not at all abstract, as Jung has earlier pointed out. The Extroverted Thinker can contemplate even the most abstract of matters as long as they are supported by entities of the external world. The thinking of individuals like Napoleon Bonaparte and Alexander the Great are distinct representations of such phenomena. However, it is clear that the Extroverted Thinker is more comfortable in the realm of the concrete than in the abstract. As on this account we may compare the Thinking of Napoleon Bonaparte, who could be thought of as a representative of Extroverted Thinking in relation to the thinking of Albert Einstein. Both have demonstrated an ability to think in the abstract with great proficiency, yet Einstein, the Introverted Thinker has advanced further in the realm of abstract thought because he needed less support of the object. The Extroverted Thinker needs the concrete for the following reasons. In order for his thoughts to be validated, they need to be confirmed by an external object. As has been shown by the great English philosopher of the 17th century, George Berkeley, there are no abstract ideas in the material world. Hence, whatever is material, or external to the mind is only concrete. As common sense shall inform us, we may have abstract ideas in our imagination about the table we see, but there is nothing abstract about the table that we see as a thing in itself.



    However, the Extroverted Thinker, again, to make this point more clear, if qualified by the concrete object outside of himself will feel warranted to embark on a manifold of theoretical speculations. The empirical method and the epistemical methodology of conventional sciences is in closest affinity with Extroverted Thinking. There can be no doubt that theories of psychology, sociology and biology are highly abstract and complicated, yet retain a firm grasp of the empirical evidence upon which the abstractions in such fields are founded. Before we can explore the question of what Extroverted Thinking is, we must first clearly define the essence of Thinking.



    Thinking in its own element could be equated with the essence of logic, or impersonal reasoning, the advanced version of is well known as mathematics. Thus, in condensed form we can equate Thinking with reasoning. We also know that Thinking can be both Extroverted and Introverted, the essence of Thinking in its own element has very little partiality towards Introversion or Extroversion. The difference between the two is that the former is qualified by the subject and the latter by the object. As Jung earlier comments that Thinking by and large is qualified by subjective sources (Introverted Thinking), or objective data transmitted by sense-perception (Extroverted Thinking). At the very essence, Thinking is a thought process, hence this requires work of the subjective, or the inner faculties of the individual preoccupied with thinking. However, this subjective or inner work of the thought process is most easily stimulated by the external or the concrete object. Thus the essence of Thinking is internal, however, it could clearly be stimulated both by the inner world it dwells in or by the external world it associates with, as the demarcation between Extroverted Thinking and Introverted Thinking shows to us.



    “So in Judging whether a particular thinking is extraverted or not we must first ask: by what criterion does it judge---does it come from outside, or is its origin subjective? A further criterion is the direction the thinking takes in drawing conclusions---whether it is principally directed outwards or not.” Psychological types P.342 To further elaborate on this matter Thinking derives its confidence in ideas propounded by virtue of having acknowledged the logically consistency of the notion in consideration.



    Because Extroverted Thinking is stimulated by the external or concrete object, it is principally directed outward, and because it requires the External object for maintenance of itself, the criteria it utilizes to make assessments is external to itself. As is manifest to any logician, thinking or logic requires initial premises, at best logic can show what is and what is not true granted that the accepted premises are deemed satisfactory in the given thought process. Or in other words, logic cannot certify that a proposition is either true or false because it accepts the initial premises of such a proposition by default. This is what Jung has previously referred to as an agenda. Hence, the Extroverted Thinker derives his initial premises from the outside or the objective factor, the Introverted Thinker derives them from within or the subjective factor.


    The only reason the Extroverted Thinker will not accept the premises offered by the external factor is if they are logically untenable or contradictory. However, he clearly he has no say in regards to why or why not certain notions should be accepted as he lacks the inner judgment. This of course would be the case if the Extroverted Thinker was a pure type and inhered within a psyche wholly devoid of all other faculties. The Extroverted Thinking type can attain closer affinity with the inner judgment through cultivation of his Introverted Perceptions. The Extroverted Thinking type with auxiliary Introverted Intuition is in a more advantageous position than the Extroverted Thinking type with a Sensory preference because the Introverted Intuition is more internally focused due to its abstract nature. Abstract is the antonym of concrete, and it is easy to see a connection between abstraction and introversion owing to our earlier example concerning the equation of extroversion with concreteness. As an additional note concerning Extroverted Thinking, we should proceed further to explain why the Extroverted Thinker needs to be first and foremost in tune with the concrete or External object, yet after this point is free to explore all the abstract ideas he may chose to embark on. As an Extrovert, his Externally focused faculties operate first, yet when this criteria has been met, he is free to advance towards his internally focused faculties.


    Next, we should ask, what exactly does it mean to derives premises and methodologies of thought from the outside. The Thinking of a conventional business or an operator of a military unit are a striking case in point for this. In such cases, the business man or the officer is given an agenda which clearly outlines what is and what is not acceptable. He is instructed to impose this agenda onto the external environment, whether it be other businesses or soldiers. Hence, what agrees with the agenda, is acceptable and what does not agree with the agenda is unacceptable. Of course, if the Extroverted Thinker later finds the agenda to be illogical or for any reason unacceptable, unlike the Introverted Thinker he will not be content with merely abandoning the agenda, but will be compelled to change it. This attests to the Extroverted Thinker’s tendency, on the account of extroversion to be in tune with the external environment under all circumstances. It is the very air that he breathes. What this also means is that the Extroverted Thinker is limited to the tools available in the external environment or those that could be created using the tools of the external environment to force change.


    The next question we should ask is, which factor of the psychic economy of the Extroverted Thinker is salient, the Extroversion or Thinking? The Extroversion is the air that any Extrovert breathes, Extroversion or the external material object is what the Extrovert requires in order to function, or in this case to think. Hence, without a doubt, it is the Extroversion that is salient. Extroversion is clearly more associated with action than contemplation. Hence, the Extroverted Thinker is far more concerned with application of thoughts or ideas rather than the integrity of their theoretical make up. As earlier mentioned, the Extroverted Thinker is forced to be in close affinity with the external environment. Thus, he does not have a choice not to act. To stop acting is tantamount to stopping breathing. Inevitably the Extroverted Thinker is compelled to influence his external environment and change it towards what he believes shall make it better than what it has been hitherto. His agenda may be based on the external factors of the environment that he currently inhabits, the environment he currently strives to change, however, as a Thinker he has the faculties of critical analysis that he needs to induce the necessary changes. He also has the connection to the inner life which is necessary in order to change the external environment in favor of what the inner life deems proper. This is especially the case if the Extroverted Thinker in question is gifted with Intuition. It is also the case that the Extroverted Thinker requires very little emotional support and this grants him the privilege of autonomy, as he is free to do as he deems desirable irrespectively of whether or not this merits the approval of other individuals. Thus, unlike the Extroverted Feeler, the Extroverted Thinker is much less likely to succumb to the tyranny of the convention. Clearly it is the case that his thinking is afflicted by the object in a tyrannous fashion similarly to that of Extroverted Feeling, however he is equipped with tools of far greater quality to overcome this dilemma.


    It should be mentioned however, that since Extroversion holds primacy over Thinking, the Extroverted Thinker is in danger of having his thoughts conform to what the object demands. It is certainly unlikely that he will compromise logic to conform to the object, however, he may fall prey to unconscious forces that he has very little intellectual awareness of. As an Extrovert, the Extroverted Thinker tends not to be clearly aware of his inner faculties and hence he may be tacitly undermined by them. As a dominant Judging type, he may not be closely in tune with his perceptions. As a result he may not be consciously aware of perceptions that do not confirm the attitudes supportive of his current methodologies of thought and firmly established axioms and premises of his worldview. Hence, his reasoning may almost always be analytically immaculate, however, he may unconsciously disregard ideas that currently live a world apart. Or ideas that he has hitherto had an apathetical or antagonistical attitude towards.


    It has been mentioned in earlier profiles that the Extroverted Judging type is closely in tune with the External grid of perception by which the ebb and flow of the external world is to be organized. That is the essence of Extroverted Judgment, the Introverted Judging type which has Extroverted Judgment as the shadow faculty tends to lack this grid of perception. As may easily be inferred from earlier ideas discussed in this essay, Extroverted Judgment operates primarily by comparing external variables to the agenda which it has accepted by default. It has also been mentioned earlier that the Extroverted Thinking type which is a representative of Extroverted Judgment tends to distort his perceptions in favor of the previously established agenda by Thinking.


    Thus, this leads us to further take note of the aforementioned grid of perception. The grid of perception is more informative than directive, hence it is more of an essence of perception rather than judgment. However, since Judgment precedes perception for the Extroverted Thinking type, the perception is skewed in favor of the demands of thinking. Hence, only perceptions that agree with Thinking are viewed in a favorable light and are highly likely to retain a position in the psyche of the Extroverted Thinker. Thus, all things are organized based on the agenda imposed by the Extroverted Thinking before they are properly incepted. Only upon further analysis could the Extroverted Thinker do justice to information he has stored in the categories of the agenda imposed by Extroverted Thinking. However, initially, it is not within his power to free himself from his prejudices.


    Such prejudices derive from the external world without a doubt. They derive primarily from the school of thought that the Extroverted Thinker has acquired most of his inspiration from. This is the case because as a dominant Thinking type, thinking or intellectual pursuits are prized above all. Yet, because the object or extroversion holds primacy over Thinking, the Extroverted Thinker runs the danger of sacrificing the integrity of his thoughts to the object. And this is the reason why the schools of thought which were particularly inspiring to him could have a greater impact on his own private thought than he would have wished to allow. This certainly does not give the Introverted Thinker a break, as he suffers from a very similar malady. Much like the Extroverted Thinker, the Introverted Thinker is in danger of having his thoughts vitiated by an entity foreign to the essence of thought. For the Extroverted Thinker it is the object, for the Introverted Thinker it is the subject, or his own private, unconscious predilections which dwell in the abyss of his psyche.


    Accordingly, as it has been mentioned in the Extroverted Feeling profile, the Extrovert lacks the inner conscience, hence it is very easy for him to be seduced into unethical activity as long as others are not watching. This again, does not imply hypocrisy or conscious manipulation on behalf of the Extrovert, but merely shows that because the ethical agenda lies outside of the psyche of the Extroverted Thinker, he needs to be in tune with the External agenda, in order to properly employ the standard. Or in other words, he needs to be in interaction with the external world in order to practice what he preaches, as because if he is not reminded of his agenda, he easily forgets about it. To make the point even more clear, this is because the agenda is stored in the faculties external to the subject and therefore not easily accessible from within. The obvious implication of this is that the Extroverted Thinker can be seduced into illogical thought and violation of his thinking values such as fairness and clear-headedness when not in proper interaction with the external environment. Hence, he is most logically consistent and fair when interacting with the external world. Therefore the Extroverted Thinker is far more adept as a business manager or a general rather than a solitary philosopher. For the very least he shall wish to be a scientist, as this leads him further away from essence of introversion and pure thought and into closer affinity with interaction with the external world. For this reason Extroverted Thinking tends to prefer laboratory experiments to theoretical speculations of mathematics and philosophy.



    As could be inferred from the discussion concerning the Extroverted Thinking type that we have embarked on at this point, such intense affinity with the object poses further dangers which require further ramifications. “This thinking naturally leads directly back to the object, but never beyond it, not even to a linking of experience with an objective data. Conversely, when it has an idea for an object, it is quite unable to experience its practical, individual value, but remains stuck in a more or less tautological position. The materialistic mentality is an instructive example of this. When extraverted thinking is subordinated to objective data as a result of over-determination by the object, it engrosses itself entirely in the individual experience and accumulated mass of undigested empirical material. The oppressive weight of individual experiences having little or no connection with one another produces a dissociation of thought which usually requires psychological compensation.”


    Hence, the Extroverted Thinker, in the event of having abused his faculties will not be able to think at all. As the essence of Extroversion is to be equated with action itself. Yet Thinking requires interaction with the subjective factor or one’s inner ideas. Thus, the Extroverted Thinker, in such a case, simply acts too much to think. His affinity with the external object, which by its very nature renders the propensity towards materialism hardly in need of further elaboration. For this reason, the Extroverted Thinking type tends to be over-represented in the academic circle of behaviorist psychologists. From the intellectual viewpoint, Extroverted Thinking is most adept at making practical, concrete and quick decisions in a short amount of time. Success of military generals and business officials is representative of the merit of this type. This is the case because Extroversion renders a connection with the external world fluent and quite easy in effect. Hence, the Extroverted Thinker tends to have few difficulties in relating and applying his thoughts to the external world. Yet Extroversion is antithetical with Introversion, and therefore the Extroverted Thinker tends to be much less at home in the realm of theoretical contemplation. Thus, profound thinking is not the strength of the Extroverted Thinker. As a behaviorist he can easily identify the concrete sources of the problem in behaviors of other individuals and concoct many useful practical solutions, however, he will not be able to solve the deeper, underlying problems of psychology surrounding the behaviors that have been studied. In such a case, Extroverted Thinking shall be in need of modification by the faculties of Introversion. This is the main vice of the Extroverted Thinking type from the standpoint of intellectual assessment. However, to further depict the essence of the Extroverted Thinker it is important to discuss the virtues of this type to a greater extent.


    The aforementioned grid of perception endows the Extroverted Thinker with a clearly organized mind, much like that of the Introverted Thinker. From a practical standpoint, the Extroverted Thinker holds one important advantage over his introverted counterpart. Namely that his thoughts and ideas could be easily applied to the external world. Hence, this is what enables him to make his decisions quickly and with great accuracy. Since the Extroverted Thinker is in close affinity with the external world, his Thinking is primarily concerned with how to interact with the external world. As a Thinker, he tends to be strategically minded, and his external focus enables him to apply strategies and plans to the external world. Once more, success of Napoleon Bonaparte and Alexander the Great are emblematic of Extroverted Thinker’s success at application of ideas to practical and concrete endeavors. The Extroverted Thinker, due to the intense degree of Extroverion is also quite adept at interacting with the external world. He does not contemplate the implications of his actions upon immediate introduction of them and therefore unlike the Introverted Thinker tends to be very decisive. Whatever is consistent with his agenda is sound, whatever is not consistent is unsound, and what cannot be categorized as one of the two on the spot is irrelevant. “This type of man elevates objective reality, or an objectively oriented intellectual formula, into the ruling principle not only for himself but for his whole environment. By this formula good and evil are measured, and beauty and ugliness determined. Everything that agrees with this formula is right, everything that contradicts it is wrong, and anything that passes by it indifferently is merely incidental. Because this formula seems to embody the entire meaning of life, it is made into a universal law which must be put into effect everywhere all the time, both individually and collectively. Just as the extraverted thinking type subordinates himself to his formula, so, for their own good, everybody round him must obey it too, for whoever refuses to obey it is wrong----he is resisting the universal law, and is therefore unreasonable, immoral and without conscience. His moral code forbids him to tolerate exceptions; his ideal must also be a universally valid truth, quite indispensable for the salvation of mankind. This is not from any great love for his neighbor, but from the highest standpoint of justice and truth.” Psychological types p. 347
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Thus, it should be noted that the Extroverted Thinker’s identity is founded primarily on external factors. Because of this, he is tempted to define himself by his status and reputation. Since his judgment aims at the external world it therefore seeks to control entities external to himself. It is also the case that the radical Extroversion of this type leaves very little room for the essence of the individual is hardly given into consideration. As before mentioned, the Extroverted Thinker accepts externally oriented premises by default. In effect he accepts that achievement of status is highly desirable and will stop at nothing to attain the envisioned position. Thus, the Extroverted Thinker will strive for greatest accomplishment possible. In cases of exaggeration of such a problem, the Extroverted Thinker in question will strive to be god, lives of Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte and Joseph Stalin are striking cases in point. When the object predominates over the subject, nothing, not even the essence of thought or logic itself will stop the extroverted Thinker from embracing the object to the fullest extent possible, and quite often such an object can be the world itself.


    The more the Extroverted Thinker is divorced from the inner essence or the subject, the more inner conflict shall be experienced with the subject. That is the case because the object may or may not be consistent with the unconscious tendencies of the Extroverted Thinker. Since the deciding factor derives from the outside, it is very easy for the Extroverted Thinker to act and think in a fashion contrary to his internal predilections. This will cause further conflict for the Extroverted Thinking type in question, as what he deems by the standards of his external agenda to be successful may directly contradict what his inner being unconsciously gravitates towards. Or in other words, the Extroverted Thinker’s agenda may long for wealth and recognition, yet his inner being, especially his shadow Introverted Feeling may long for personal integrity and loyalty to abstract values concerning compassion. On the surface, the Extroverted Thinker may appear calm and determined to fulfill his inner agenda, yet within, he may be plagued by many doubts concerning the agenda he has vowed to fulfill as all of his inner being revolts against such a way of thinking and lifestyle.
    “If tolerance for the sick, the suffering, or the abnormal should chance to be an ingredient for the formula, special provisions will be made for humane societies, hospitals, prisons, missions, etc, or at least extensive plans will be drawn up. Generally the motive of justice and truth is not sufficient to ensure the actual execution of such projects; for this, real Christian charity is needed, and this has more to do with the feeling than with any intellectual formula.” Psychological types P. 347.


    Thus, it is well known that Thinking stands in sharpest contrast with Feeling. A type which relies very heavily on Thinking is bound to suppress feeling. The ENTJ relies first and foremost on Thinking and in cases of lack of balance or lack of sufficient attention paid to faculties other than the dominant Extroverted Thinking, such a type will strive to establish the entire worldview on the basis of Thinking. Clearly, one may intellectually acknowledge the value of Feeling oriented maxims, yet in order to truly embrace them, heavy reliance on the Feeling faculty is necessary. Such a reliance is likely to be far heavier than the dominant Thinking type which represses feeling can afford. On the conscious level he will pressure himself to apply Thinking to pursue the envisaged endeavors and in effect will be baffled at his ostensible lack of success in such activities. This will lead the Extroverted Thinking type to have blind faith in himself as by all logical means he has every reason to believe that his current course of action is sound as it contains no logical contradictions, and in light of the bigger picture will simply see no wrong with it. However, the cause of much of his inner conflict shall be the diverging attitudes of the Extroverted Thinking and the suppressed Introverted Feeling. The latter is very important because it is the most internally focused faculty of the ENTJ. When the ENTJ suppresses Introverted Feeling, he suppresses the innermost essence of his being. In this case he will find himself plagued by inner conflict that he neither understands nor is aware of how it may be rectified.



    The more the inner life of the ENTJ is neglected, the more difficult it will be for him to attain the necessary connection with his introverted faculties. This is precisely what the needs to rectify his situation. Yet the more he declines in this respect, the more difficult it will be to change the course of action. It is clearly the case that our attitude towards faculties that we are not comfortable using is negative. This requires no further consideration than the most superficial overlook of a Thinking type towards Feeling, whereas among such types it is common to believe for Feeling to be base and weak. It is also common for a Feeling type to assume Thinking to be cold and cruel almost by definition. Hence, the more the ENTJ is divorced from his introverted faculties, the more negative his attitude shall become towards his internally focused functions. To compensate for the inner turmoil, he seeks salvation in the services of Thinking function where he is led to believe that if he adheres to his principles closely enough, he shall be expiated from all his depravities and defects. “But the more rigid the formula , the more he develops into a martinet, a quibbler, and a prig, who would like to force himself and other into one mould. ” Psychological Types P.348.


    Hence, it is not only the case that the Extroverted Thinker seeks salvation for himself in that one mould, but he also believes that his identity is for the very least very similar, if not at all without difference with that of others. Hence what works for him, ought to work for all others. Secondly, his external focus compels him to attempt to control his external environment. Thus for this reason, as Jung comments, not only does he force himself into such a mold, but also others. To rectify this problem, he must dissociate his inner being from his external image and finally separate his identity from that of enterprises and individuals he controls. Just like the Extroverted Feeling type, the Extroverted Thinker is offered ample incentive to control others on the account of basing his identity externally which allows for him to claim entities external to himself as part of his identity.



    “The more the feelings are repressed, the more deleterious is their secret influence on thinking that is otherwise beyond reproach. The intellectual formula, which because of its intrinsic value mist justifiably claim general recognition, undergoes a characteristic alteration as a result of this unconscious personal sensitiveness: it becomes rigidly dogmatic.” Psychological Types P.350 The Extroverted Thinking type is in least conscious control of the Feeling faculty. His intellectual and impersonal standards would not allow wild emotional outbursts or even worse for his Feelings to interfere with his dispassionate thought processes. Instead the Feeling remains suppressed and his unconscious and personal attitudes are expressed only implicitly in undertones which seek to convey his thoughts. “The self-assertion of personality is transferred to the formula. Truth is no longer allowed to speak for itself; it is identified with the subject and treated like a sensitive darling who an evil-minded critic has wronged. The critic is demolished, if possible with personal invective, and no argument is too gross to be used against him. ” Psychological Types P.350


    Of course the Extroverted Thinker is unlikely to retort to an intellectual case against his ideas with a personal invective, but without a doubt, he harbors negative feelings about those who disagree with him concerning impersonal ideas. Unlike the Introverted Thinker, the Extroverted Thinker cannot separate himself from his external environment and therefore any attack upon his external claims and achievements is tantamount to an attack upon his whole being. As has been mentioned, if the Extroverted Thinker is not observed and judged by others at the given moment, he may go against the standards of logical consistency and fairness, yet in most cases he stays consistent and privately harbors murderous thoughts of his adversaries. The highly imaginative perspective of Introverted Intuition is a highly prized ammunition by way of such a type, as well as the negative Introverted Feeling can easily be made to despise those who do contrary to the will of the agenda of Extroverted Thinking. Our lower faculties are least pronounced of all, and in virtue of Hegel’s master slave dialect could be regarded as most servile to the dominant faculties. In the case of the ENTJ, Introverted Feeling is most servile of all faculties to the will of the Extroverted Thinking.


    “There are Extraverted Idealists so consumed by their desire for the salvation of mankind that they will not shrink from any lie or trickery in pursuit of their ideal. In science there are not a few painful examples of highly respected investigators who are so convinced of the truth and general validity of their formula that they have not scrupled to falsify evidence in its favor. Their sanction is : the end justifies the means. Only an inferior feeling function, operating unconsciously and in secret, could seduce otherwise reputable men into such aberrations.” Psychological Types P.349 Two reasons are noticeable at the outset to explain such a phenomenon. The Extroverted Thinker operates primarily on the basis of an External agenda. Hence, being regarded by others as competent may be the highest possible achievement. Therefore, if the scientist in question is convinced that he can fabricate evidence in favor of his discovery without great retributions, he shall see no reason to do otherwise. Secondly, the Extroverted Thinker’s ideas are validated primarily by an external formula. He has much less access to the inner thought process than the Introverted Thinker. Hence, he may easily be convinced that his discoveries are sound because of one particular experiment or an observation that he has come across or one particular authority he has in support of himself. As a last point concerning Extroverted Thinking, it should be noted that this type, unlike that of Introverted Judgment, does not access ideas directly but interposes external symbols between ideas and their own perception. Hence, this makes them adept at beginning stages of learning where they could easily incorporate ideas of others and external symbols into their arsenal, yet begin to decline when they will be forced to create a path of their own. For example, an Extroverted Thinker may have an easy time learning the symbols of symbolic logic and mathematics, yet when the study elevates to the theoretical level where he shall be forced to conjure and analyze symbols of his own, he shall have a decidedly more difficult of a time. Accordingly, because the ENTJ relies on external symbols more than inner thought processes, yet the latter is possible only if qualified by a concrete object, the ENTJ runs into the danger of seeing the world in black and white as well as particularistic terms. In plain English, the ENTJ behaviorist will think that the client is either to be or not to be diagnosed with a personality disorder or any given malady if he meets the 5 out of 7 symptoms. Hence, the decision there shall be made based more on observations of concrete phenomena than on analysis of ideas in their own right. The focus on concrete data may lead the ENTJ to miss the ‘big picture’ in analysis.

    II.Introverted Intuition
    Introverted Intuition is the direct path to the inner life of the ENTJ and is the first faculty fundamental to the being of the ENTJ because it is internally focused. Thus, because a function It is the essence of individualism and abstract thought. When embraced to the necessary degree, the ENTJ tends to become even more proficient in the realm of abstract thought and shall advance closer to his goal of severing ties with the conventional laws of reasoning. Such an ENTJ will also be endowed with an inner conscience which shall lead to inner peace as well as the introverted judgment of the ENTJ. Cultivation of Introverted Intuition is the path to attunement with Introverted Feeling. It should be noted however, that the ENTJ suffers the same malady as the dominant Introverted Intuitive types, due to the subjective nature of his perceptions, his view of the environment tends to be distorted, and he also has difficulty sharing personal experiences with others as they are stored first and foremost in our most comfortably used perceiving function, which in this case is Introverted Intuition. The problem for the ENTJ is much less severe than that of the dominant Introverted Intuitive types because it is compensated by the extroversion of the type which makes him more in tune with the external environment than the dominant Introverted Intuitive types. Such affinity with the external environment prevents the subjectivity of perception of the Introverted Intuition from vitiating his worldview. The ENTJ, as an Introverted Perceiving type, unlike the Extroverted perceivers, tends to have a relatively easy time focusing only on the information that is important to the ENTJ, as opposed to all information around.


    III.Extroverted Sensing
    The sensory attitude of the ENTJ is predominantly negative and the extroversion of this faculty only reinforces the ENTJ’s image consciousness and external extravagance. However, when properly embraced it shall do well to support the ENTJ’s intellectual goals by discovering necessary facts, memories and other concrete information in relation to the objectives set up by Extroverted Thinking. Memories are most easily associated with group activities and those that stand out the most are easily relatable to the external world. Unlike the Introverted Sensing types, the ENTJ tends not to be nostalgic.

    IV. Introverted Feeling
    “Often the closest members of his family, his own children, know such a father only as a cruel tyrant, while the outside world resounds with fame of his humanity.”

    Since Introverted Feeling is most servile to the Thinking, it most easily prostrates itself in favor of the image Extroverted Thinking wishes to uphold. In itself, it is predominantly negative and self-serving. If not well developed, the ENTJ will have no interest in staying true to his values unless this could be justified logically, which is rare, or others are observing him. Unlike the Introverted Thinking type with a shadow Feeling, the ENTJ’s Feelings do not follow an external structure and therefore are able to feel in a way less relevant to that of their external environment. Usually the Feeling comes to value what appeals to the Extroverted Thinking’s mindset, when it acts autonomously it is “ petty, mistrustful, crotchety and conservative.” Psychological Types P. 350
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Not one wishes to further the discussion?

    ENTJs, where the hell have you been?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #4
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Digesting, Blue Wing. Digesting.

    Generally, I find both less aptitude and interest in both internal logic and pure reason than INTPs or ISTPs. This passage from the Wikipedia entry for the Socionics LIE summarizes well how I approach arguments:
    LIEs understand easily, but are largely indifferent to, discussions that focus on the internal logic of ideas and systems. They perceive such logical systems as largely worthless to their goals and find them completely uninteresting and unproductive.

    LIEs are confident in spotting internal logical contradictions in ideas and arguments proposed by others, and in pointing them out; however, they are more likely to point out how such ideas and arguments do not hold if checked against external evidence. They see the internal consistency of a case as of lesser importance than the accuracy of the facts presented with that case.

    Likewise, LIEs are far more likely to make a case by arguing facts that support them, rather than how it fits logically from a system or assumptions.
    As for feeling, I often derive self-worth from enforcing rules in both spirit and letter; particularly when there is the temptation to deviate on grounds of bathos. More and more, my judgments reflect the insensitivity to "people's feelings" as justification for action.

    And I do so enjoy criticism according to established frameworks. Proofreading and streamlining civil service rules and regulations constitute systematization two times over, and I live for that.

    I do, therefore I am.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Chemgrl82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    eNTj
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    147

    Default

    *scrolls up, scrolls down*

    *processes bits and peices*

    *goes back to work*

  6. #6
    sammy
    Guest

    Default

    Finished reading it all.

    I think it's interesting how the relationship between Te and Fi is like that of man to woman (using traditional gender roles). In my everyday life, I can vouch for the lack of trust for Fi, down to completely ignoring my own needs and feelings so that I can accomplish goals. I will do anything to achieve, even if it means pushing aside my emotions and personal views until I reach a breaking point where they can no longer be ignored. Then, my usual way of thinking about the world becomes useless and harbors resentment toward Fi because it sees it as interfering and coddling. Basically, a waste of time in my mind because I hate sugar-coating --and that's what it seems like to me.

    But herein is the problem. If it were such a waste of time to engage my feelings and figure out what they meant at least on a regular basis instead of totally ignoring them, I wouldn't have to waste more time after-the-fact of a breakdown in functionality trying to analyze them. I can't seem to analyze my emotions for what they are, they need to be tied to some thoughts, some kind of rationality for their existence otherwise I won't trust the "truths" they convey. And as one of my good friends told me last night, coincidently during a rare breakdown, I need to stop viewing emotions and logic as incompatible. He told me that I need to analyze deeper instead of going from idea to idea, as he thinks I am, and look into what my emotions mean using evidence around me since I cannot be convinced just based off of the emotions. I cannot seem to divorce external criteria from internal criteria --they're that converged in my view of how to live my life (mostly due to cultural expectations, but also because of the way I think). My friend thinks I don't know what my own feelings are and that I need to spend more time trying to understand what they can tell me about the paths in life I take and the goals I keep trying to accomplish.

    (perfect timing for this thread, really)

  7. #7
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    I am going to read it too, I promise. Never really found any useful approaches to the ENTJ. I am looking forward to one.

    But firstly I will enjoy this beautieful little can of beer here for the evening.

    C u later
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #8
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3
    Socionics
    ENTJ
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Very well written and extremely thorough. I’m surprised how accurate the analysis is given the typical perceptions of ENTJs and I’m wondering how you achieved it. Paragraphs 8, 9, 14, 19, and 20 all especially resonate with me, barring the “solitary philosopher” comment in paragraph 14.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The Extroverted Thinker can contemplate even the most abstract of matters as long as they are supported by entities of the external world. The thinking of individuals like Napoleon Bonaparte and Alexander the Great are distinct representations of such phenomena. However, it is clear that the Extroverted Thinker is more comfortable in the realm of the concrete than in the abstract. As on this account we may compare the Thinking of Napoleon Bonaparte, who could be thought of as a representative of Extroverted Thinking in relation to the thinking of Albert Einstein. Both have demonstrated an ability to think in the abstract with great proficiency, yet Einstein, the Introverted Thinker has advanced further in the realm of abstract thought because he needed less support of the object. The Extroverted Thinker needs the concrete for the following reasons. In order for his thoughts to be validated, they need to be confirmed by an external object.
    This isn’t necessarily true. While I do require concrete, empirical data in order to validate a theory I don’t require in order to contemplate the theory in the first place. It’s simply that if this data is not available for me to obtain then the actual validity of the theory will remain in question, sandwiched in between my viewpoints of “There is a high probability of this theory being correct” and “It would be foolish to come to a definite conclusion about it without empirical data either way”. This especially factors into whether I accept a scientific theory or not. In terms of my function ordering it almost seems as if the manner that I use my leading function, Extraverted Thinking, in is determined by my secondary function, Introverted Intuition. In other words I use Extraverted Thinking in a completely different way than an ESTJ would because my Thinking function is backed up by an Intuitive one. This manifests itself through the fact that I use concrete, empirical data to draw scientific and philosophical conclusions about the state of the world rather than about my past experiences or surroundings.

    Of course the Extroverted Thinker is unlikely to retort to an intellectual case against his ideas with a personal invective, but without a doubt, he harbors negative feelings about those who disagree with him concerning impersonal ideas. Unlike the Introverted Thinker, the Extroverted Thinker cannot separate himself from his external environment and therefore any attack upon his external claims and achievements is tantamount to an attack upon his whole being. Our lower faculties are least pronounced of all, and in virtue of Hegel’s master slave dialect could be regarded as most servile to the dominant faculties. In the case of the ENTJ, Introverted Feeling is most servile of all faculties to the will of the Extroverted Thinking.
    Not particularly. If the Function Test is to be trusted then Introverted Feeling is actually my 5th function as opposed to the typical fourth for my type (my Ne actually comes as the second highest, only .1 points off from my Te) so I’m even worse off down the road than the typical ENTJ. And yet except for a momentary flare of annoyance I generally don’t feel anything of emotional value towards personal criticism. I do tend to look at my external accomplishments as a measuring stick to my internal competence but I don’t regard other people’s opinion as a valid indicator of the worth of those external accomplishments so therefore it doesn’t affect me. Ironically enough I would require empirical evidence as to why my external accomplishments are questionable in order to satisfy my Te and begin to question my internal competence.

    The Extroverted Thinker operates primarily on the basis of an External agenda. Hence, being regarded by others as competent may be the highest possible achievement. Therefore, if the scientist in question is convinced that he can fabricate evidence in favor of his discovery without great retributions, he shall see no reason to do otherwise. Secondly, the Extroverted Thinker’s ideas are validated primarily by an external formula. He has much less access to the inner thought process than the Introverted Thinker. Hence, he may easily be convinced that his discoveries are sound because of one particular experiment or an observation that he has come across or one particular authority he has in support of himself.
    While I do tend to do this in debates the widespread use of this in conventional science absolutely disgusts me. More likely than not such dishonest methods are being used to maintain the current paradigm and ultimately result in the stagnation of human knowledge for years, possibly decades. However, a debate is looked on as a relatively insignificant opportunity to have fun and increase my mental skill level. I regard it as a game and the only objective in that game is to reach the goal of increasing said skill level, which usually involves winning the debate. Even then, however, I never fabricate evidence as much as I may leave particular tangents of it out. The behavior you mentioned would strike me as too dishonest to even consider.

    As a last point concerning Extroverted Thinking, it should be noted that this type, unlike that of Introverted Judgment, does not access ideas directly but interposes external symbols between ideas and their own perception. Hence, this makes them adept at beginning stages of learning where they could easily incorporate ideas of others and external symbols into their arsenal, yet begin to decline when they will be forced to create a path of their own.
    That seems more related to a Sensing personality than simply to an Extraverted one; I know ISFJs who absolutely cannot separate the abstract qualities of liberty or evil from the American flag or Swastika respectively and any attack on their perception of the symbols are regarded as an attack on the ideas themselves. If I were to draw a conclusion I’d actually say that this inability to directly interpret abstract concepts is related more to dominant Si than anything else because Si is the function responsible for recalling bits of past information in order to understand current ideas and events. I haven’t noticed that dominant Se’s have such an extreme problem with association though they do seem to require a bit of concrete leverage in order to understand or appreciate philosophical matters. I’ve personally never had a problem with this need for concrete association.

    III. Extroverted Sensing
    The sensory attitude of the ENTJ is predominantly negative and the extroversion of this faculty only reinforces the ENTJ’s image consciousness and external extravagance. However, when properly embraced it shall do well to support the ENTJ’s intellectual goals by discovering necessary facts, memories and other concrete information in relation to the objectives set up by Extroverted Thinking. Memories are most easily associated with group activities and those that stand out the most are easily relatable to the external world.
    If anyone were to see my clothes at any given moment few would regard me as particularly self conscious. I do apparently look good in a suit but again, I only wear it on special occasion for the fulfillment of my goals, after which it returns into the closet of oblivion until another opportunity arrives. Se seems to be more manifested in me through my habit of going to the gym and practicing martial arts, but as for extravagance, I tend to regard it as little more than an offhand term for “wasting money”.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Good... I would be interested in reading more about the interaction between Te-Ni and the influence of the inferior, Fi, function.

  10. #10
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Interesting reading, even if a bit wordy. I wonder, BlueWing, how you can get the ENTJ type this well? There were some points, though, that I disagree slightly with. But most of them were taken up by LunarMoon. I however wear suits pretty often, and I like it. But as LunarMoon said, it is to achieve something. I do it because it makes me look good and kind of makes the people the same age as I am think of me as successful etc. It's just PR.

    The point I find a bit weird though, is the opening statement that we need something concrete in order to use abstract thinking. It might be true, to some extent though. If there isn't a problem, I won't come up with a plan or device that will fix it. But if need would arise (is this the entity of the external world you were talking about?) i'm able to come up with solutions to the problem pretty fast and usually to a good outcome.
    Example: I've always been interested in aviation, especially military aircraft. Yesterday a troubling thought struck me right in the back of my head: HOW the HELL are they able to measure altitude? I sat down and thought about it, and came to the conclusion that they must measure air pressure. I basically reinvented the damn thing before I looked it up later yesterday evening.

    If that's what you were talking about, an external motivation, you're right. Most of us are pretty utilitarian. Though there are times when there are no external motivation to invent things. Sometimes I get stuck in my head for hours building up theories about things, not because I need them, but because it is a good way to exercise the brain and be a little innovative. But the ENTJ mind definitely works best when a problem is on the table showing it's nasty little teeth.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJ personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 11-08-2015, 10:44 PM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 06-03-2015, 02:29 PM
  3. [INTP] INTP personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-08-2013, 06:58 PM
  4. [INFP] INFP personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 07-22-2012, 09:06 PM
  5. [ENTP] ENTP personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 11:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO