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Thread: INTJ personality type descritpion

  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer Array SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I guess it all depends what was contained in the ellipsis you used. Jung was describing pathological cases. It is hardly fair to categorize that behavior over to the entire population of Si and then make an equivalent opposite in Ni..
    The point was to illustrate how subjective Ni was, especially in unhealthy functioning cases. It is not so subjective as to see visions of its own that have nothing to do with reality. But to drive the point home that subjectivity of perception was a factor, I've used the quotation from Jung to back my claim up with. Now, keep in mind, I am not saying that it need be that subjective per se as it is in pathological cases--the only point was that it can be quite subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    It is hardly fair to categorize that behavior over to the entire population of Si and then make an equivalent opposite in Ni..
    Read the disclaimer, this has nothing to do with the 'population', but only with the unconscious tendencies. We talk about the population to better understand the unconscious tendencies. What the Ni and Si have in common here is the introverted perception--the factor from which subjectivity of perception stems from. The difference between Ni and Si (one is abstract and the other concrete) is not relevant to this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I daresay that whether an Ni explanation is "reasonable" is a subjective judgment which I don't believe belongs in the context of this essay...
    Ni explanation canot be reasonable, because Ni is pure intuition--it is just hunches. It is what Jung called an 'irrational' function (check my definitions). An INTJ could be reasonable, but then he would be reasonable by virtue of his Te, the rational function. But then again, we're forgetting something here. This is not about people, but about unconscious tendencies. All we know is that Ni is an irrational function, Te is rational. And we also know that perceptions of Ni tend to be subjective due to internally focused factor of perception. See Jung's referrence to introverted perception in his exegesis of Si.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Either the judgments you are referring to are pathological cases and don't apply to the rest of INTJs, or it is normative. If it is normative for INTJs, then frankly, how dare anyone say that a reasonable explanation doesn't even exist! ...
    What are you forgetting here?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    That's not intellectually fair! Of course a reasonable explanation exists! Just because some people don't get it doesn't mean a reasonable explanation doesn't exist. That is a very arrogant thing to say. A reasonable explanation exists at least in the mind of the INTJ....
    Keep in mind, irrational in the Jungian sense of the word does not mean counter to reason, but only means not having used reason to arrive at the conclusion. As I have mentioned later in the essay, Ni judgments are often dismissed as meritless because the Ni has not supported them with argument, yet despite this, the ideas of the Ni are often sound. This means that the idea the Ni has propounded can indeed be supported with argument, yet he just has not managed to find a way to accomplish this.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I later came to learn, after knowing her for a couple of years, that these hunches were based on stored up information that she had actually taken in a long time previous to the time when she got the hunch - sometimes years. I'm talking about amazingly minuscule trivia. She was not in touch with the logic at the time of the hunch, and was not able to explain it to me, but a logical, reasonable explanation did exist..
    This is quite different from what Ni dominants do. She seems to be relying on perceptions of memory, on perceptions of concrete notions. Whilst INJs on something rather abstract. ISJs penetrate to the deepest essence of concrete things and that is why they are able to memorize them to every detail and know how it all relates to their senses.

    Yet Nis actually have intuitive light onto the deepest archetypal essence of all things, that is how they are able to predict the future simply by hunches. They are able to see patterns intuitive that are difficult for us to discover with rational argument. Difficult, but possible indeed, granted that their insights were sound.

    "Its prophetic foresight is explained by its relation to the archetypes, which represent the laws governing the course of all experiencable things."

    So, in short, there are laws explaining how all things work, we technically could figure them out step by step with logical analysis, yet Nis skip that part and grasp it all with their intuitive perceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    If one must insist that Ni isn't based on a reasonable explanation, then I must insist that that only refers to pathological cases.
    Ni is an irrational function in the Jungian sense of the word. The discoveries it makes can be justified rationally, but this is not the method Ni employs. As it goes by pure perception.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #22


    Wow. Very long post. I'm sorry. I'd have to go back and read through it. I find that you've explored some of the aspects of INTJ that online profiles neglected to and you've touch subjects that I've never really thought about and was surprised of the accuracy. I must compliment you on that Now I shall return to your mammoth post.


    That was painfully long, but very insightful and well-argued. I cannot be bothered to analyze any of your points (there are so many), but I inherently agree with most, if not all of them. Now I must return to Dvorak's New World Symphony. Good job again.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Array Rohsiph's Avatar
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    Jul 2007


    I think I'm on my way out of reading/following critical discussions relating to MBTI, after approaching it quite vigorously over a year and a half ago. It's a hunch()--browsing the various MBTI-focused boards has been less and less fruitful for me since November.

    With that, I wonder if taking the hour to read the opening posts in full could be a great place to consider an end . . . I really appreciated the post, as a particular lingering issue I've had in trying to understand MBTI is how to better define Ni and how it relates to other functions.

    Thanks for sharing, BlueWing. I'll admit I've skipped over most of your longer posts . . . but my primary quest herein has been to better understand myself. I feel just fine with a more cursory understanding of the other types (most knowledge there being about how they're specifically different from me ). A narcissism, I suppose, but I'm hoping it adds to the foundations that will fuel my most profound future insights (which, in my current aspirations, I hope to "publish" in one form or another).

    Very interesting, all around . . . I'm tempted, at present, to make a copy to share with people, to say "Read this and you'll have a much better chance of understanding what I mean when I say 'my internal world is fundamentally chaotic,'" but most people I would probably want to give it to wouldn't have the same background in esoteric studies (particularly philosophy) that I think really must help readers who aren't coming at this with Ni dominant minds.

  4. #24
    Junior Member Array umop_3pisdn's Avatar
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    Jan 2008


    I read it all, I found it to be very insightful. Though I suppose I am an INTJ, and also have some solipsist tendencies, so the length wasn'tmuch of an obstacle. That, and I've always sort of struggled to put words to Ni. Primarily to see if I could identify it, with certainty, as my dominant function... because, I find, I'm always looking for "certainty" in my typing, to the point of questioning/re-examining it way too much.

    Blah I'm going off on a tangent. Anyways, I found you explained the idea of Ni very well. I'd say you have a surprising amount of insight into Ni. The only way I could ever really identify it, was as "that dark, chaotic, mysterious place, from which ideas just seem to randomly spring out from. That weird, vague, internal, and far reaching place that ultimately acts as my centre, within which seemingly anything can happen."

    Well, I'm kind of blowing this up, but I've always been really prone towards escapism. I write epic science-fantasy novels in my spare time, and I focus lots on cosmology and weird metaphysical constructs and shit, to sort of create the ultimate playground for what I want to happen... as I've gotten to the point in my planning, where I can rationally manipulate the principles of the cosmos of my story, to cause nearly anything to happen in a semi-logical way. I also designed it to overlap on top of our own pre-existing reality as seamlessly and logically as I found possible (I took particular pride in that). I'd relate my dominant Ni function as the thing that motivated me to plan all this shit out independently.

    I essentially wanted to create the best imaginary sandbox I could think of, that wouldn't strike me as too absurd or unrealistic. I've been thinking about it with a lot of focus, for a fairly long while (my story), while trying to see how many ways I can manipulate the universe it takes place in, so as use it as a stage for other stories. Ultimately, I've used it as my own personal escape from reality ("reality sucks, so I'll escape off to a better one?" That must be the gist of what my motivations are,) and I don't think I'd have been as compelled to do this, in the way that I have, if I didn't have a Ni function as dominant.

    I find I identify with probably 90% of the profile. Particularly how Ni is an irrational function, and that the inner world is very chaotic. I also find myself to be very disconnected from reality, and one of my recurring problems is trying to effectively "connect" to reality.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Array Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Jul 2008


    Some parts that I'll be pondering...

    "Intuition itself has a clear notion of what is worthy of focus. "

    "Although his intuition may be stimulated by external objects, it does not concern itself with external possibilities but with what the external object has released within him" - Beautifully said

    "Unlike Extroverted Intuition, Introverted Intuition cannot adapt itself to the external perceptions and the external environment but instead has a tendency to create an environment of its own" - Two thumbs up for daydreaming

    "...he forces the external environment to adapt to his own agenda" - True

    '...he will need to be able to translate his amorphous hunches into symbols that are intelligible to a conscious mind."

    "Introverted Intuition has a surplus of inner energy and can stimulate itself from within whilst requiring very little external stimulation. Thus the INTJ will entertain a myriad of ideas, more than any other type as long as they are relevant to his vision and can be explored in depth. Introverted Intuition is naturally at home in exploration of ideas because it is the very essence of pure imagination"

    ", the external influx of ideas is imposing and invading to the INJ because his primary purpose is to preserve the vision that he has in mind, which by all rights to him is superior to that of the External vision. Had he had his way, he would freeze the scenario he has in mind and be content with that eternally. " - If only it were possible. Sometimes the thoughts come and go so fast I dont even know what they were, only that they were brilliant. Then they are gone and I try to re-create what brought it on but its already too late.

    "Incidentally, Introverted Intuition reaches for the heavens that not a word of ours could describe, yet Extroverted Judgment of the INJ refuses to recognize any notion that cannot be properly depicted in conventional terms as substantial. The Extroverted Judgment would insist on repudiation of such ideas, yet the Introverted Intuition is far from complying and as a rule demonstrates its preponderous superiority over its Externally judicious proponent. Even though Extroverted Thinking of the INTJ would have long asserted the vision should be dismissed because it is not relevant to a clear-cut external agenda, the vision continues to be the primary driving force of the INJ, and rarely hesitates to do different or the opposite from what the Extroverted Judgment prescribes. Interestingly enough, this is manifestly the case for the INTJ, a Thinking type, a type that significantly relies on mere reason, yet in the cases of a discrepancy between their reasoning and their hunches, their hunches are much more likely to prevail. Yet, the INTJ nonetheless maintains a cool and unperturbed demeanor despite the chaotic and erratic environment within them, as they are only comfortable putting notions on display that do indeed agree with reason. The rest, far from being suppressed, thrive internally and serve as the guiding light of the INTJ thought." - My favorite section

    "The INTJ for this reason, despite his radically individualistic mindset, unlike the INP does not subscribe to the attitude of concocting his worldview strictly for himself with no wish to impose it on any other individual. Instead, he deems for his radically subjective and individualistic vision to be one that others should embrace, and often deems for the vision to be a failure because it has not succeeded by the external standards." - Agreed :sad:

    "the INTJ will indeed be forced to confront his tendency to control the external environment" - Been down that road

    "When the INTJ has become thoroughly absorbed in his inner vision, he will heavily gravitate towards isolation and slowly shall turn his back on the most important conscious goal of his. Maintaining control over the external environment and ensuring it is transformed in accordance to his vision. " - Begin robot mode

    "Unlike the NTPs who insist on acceptance of a doctrine only if it is true, such INTJs are often compelled to doubt that truth exists" - ABSOLUTELY! Where reality is subjective and relative, so must be "truth".

    "The inner life of the INTJ tends to be chaotic " Yes

    "we often observe INTJ novelists and poets competing with the Intuitive-Feeling types in the literary arena. In that regard the visions of the INTJ become even more forceful than that of the ENTP, as they primarily rely on hunches and sentiments to convince others to embrace their vision. In that regard, they are supreme." - Where nearly everything we try to portray to the world is already symbolic of our inner feelings, poetry and creative writing come as a very natural step or extention of this. Which is helped by:

    "Often INTJs will distort their perceptions of their feelings to better accommodate their hunches or logical reasoning"- This distortion of feelings and perceptions is GREAT fodder for writing.

    "Feeling, very rarely has an autonomous voice of its own and merely cheers to what the Ni-Te axis considers desirable, and frowns at what it considers undesirable. But when it does acquire autonomy of its own, the INTJ almost infallibly overcomes his existential crisis and his life is radically altered for the better" - I've posted before about how drastically falling in love changed my world and my mentality. The whole 'giving sight to the blind' thing never made more sense. "Radically altered" might be an understatement.

  6. #26
    Babylon Candle Array Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Just for ease of reading and responding, I saved it in a word document.

    Then out of curiosity I ran a grammar test on it.

    Here are the stats. BlueWing's total essay has 9,904 words, and an average of 24.7 words per sentence (groan). It's written at fully a 12th grade reading level with the corresponding Flesch Reading Ease level being set at difficult. So then only those of us who are not lazy will read this whole thing word for word, AND we must be intellectual enough to grasp it. Since I graduated from high school with an 86% overall average, it's not looking real good for me.
    i just read the whole thing in one sitting. I didn't really understand all the complaining until I used word to figure out that it's 19 pages!!!

    -the Ni vs Si vs Ne was pretty good:
    " Thus, Introverted Sensing anthropomorphizes the physical world, Introverted Intuition, almost wholly without a doubt, anthropomorphizes abstractions and ideas."
    "Extroverted Intuition, as mentioned in the ENTP profile, tends to take the external world lightly as it is not fundamental to the inner being of the individual representing such a function. In effect, often has a playful, if not banal, happy go luckypick the berries attitude. Yet the introverted intuition, does indeed take the environment for granted as that is fundamental to its inner being, and in effect takes the external world quite seriously. Thus, security, especially intellectual security is of foremost and personal concern for the INTJ."

    -Im not an INTJ or an INTP, yet i found the description extremely enjoyable. someone please explain the soothing effect Ti seems to have on me (when I read Ti in non-academic settings) !?

  7. #27
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    thank you, i loved that.

  8. #28
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    Il have to read it sober. I'll let you know.

  9. #29


    I LOVE INTJs. They are awesome

  10. #30
    Senior Member Array Daedalus's Avatar
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    May 2010


    Awesome posts SolitaryWalker!

    Took me a while to read and understand what you posted, but it was well worth the time spent on it!

    Thank you
    Extraverted - 25 Introverted - 75
    Sensing - 0 Intuition - 100
    Thinking - 63 Feeling - 37
    Judging - 63 Perceiving - 37

    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

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