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  1. #31
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    I HIGHLY doubt that James Bond is an ENTP. There is nothing particularly inventive about him, and he seems very detail-focused and action/adventure-oriented. I think xSTP is quite clear.
    I agree. In fact, he is most certainly an ESTP.

    I think Bond's clever nature leads many people to conclude that he is an ENTP. But clever is not the same as inventive.

  2. #32
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    If INTPs could audibly broadcast their every thought, they would be ENTPs.

  3. #33
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    If INTPs could audibly broadcast their every thought, they would be ENTPs.
    I'd say ENTJ is a better fit. ENTPs voice hunches more than thoughts.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #34
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing
    I'd say ENTJ is a better fit. ENTPs voice hunches more than thoughts.
    No. An ENTP is the marketing director for the unit I work under, and the man jumps off the pages of ENTP descriptions. Highly talented and in the right place, but hard to predict and strategically fix.

    Idea! Idea! Idea! Flash of skillfully projected warmth! Idea! Switch to cold analysis, snapping loose ends off of every project within reach! Idea! Idea! Retraction and disavowal of two of five prior ideas! Announcement of boredom with wrap-up! Random joke! Exit.

    Conduct some field studies and then get back to me -- you'll see. And agree.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post

    Idea! Idea! Idea! Flash of skillfully projected warmth! Idea! Switch to cold analysis, snapping loose ends off of every project within reach! Idea! Idea! Retraction and disavowal of two of five prior ideas! Announcement of boredom with wrap-up! Random joke! Exit.
    Have we worked together before? Pretty accurate summation of my entire career.

  6. #36
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Have we worked together before? Pretty accurate summation of my entire career.
    It's uncanny. I know presumed ENTPs, having one as a professor, but had never worked daily with a focused and ambitious one until recently -- nor seen such distilled characteristics.

    Oddly enough, my market development team includes one archetypical INFP, ISFP and ISTP each, too.

  7. #37
    Member Buds of May's Avatar
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    Enigmatically, the Introverted Judgment tends to be utilized for external purpose by the ENTP, as the type in itself is most properly classified as Extroverted.
    Yes, enigmatically.
    What I'm trying to get a sense of is how Ti primarily plays a supporting role to Ne. Primarily as in overall, not as a director toward its own end, not necessarily leading back to itself. It reads like: Judge in order to Perceive. Thought in the service of Observation. Which seems, well, counterintuitive. But you propose the Ne with its own agenda. Which is ... informed by judgment but not judgment's agenda? ... unconsciously motivated?

    Examples help in the sense of being worth a thousand words. "As Extroverts, ENTPs are doers, therefore they see imagination and logic as means to the end of achieving an external goal." External goal -- is this like a Te function thing? "Extroverted Intuition alone allows for the ENTP to assess the general ambience of the situation and present whatever faade is necessary to achieve a goal, yet the Extroverted Feeling promotes such an endeavor by establishing a clear-cut external agenda." Fe? Examples can wrap around functional nuances that are complex to describe through analysis.

    Unlike the INTs, the ENTP does not need to retreat into himself to process or analyze ideas, as he simply can volley them as he goes.
    What might be an ENTP's perception of his own Ti?

    However, ENTPs who have developed their introverted judgment and have come in tune with the higher purpose will liberate themselves from the tyranny of the external agenda and only then will be able to come to terms with their inner being and view themselves as true individuals as opposed to mere agents of the network they are environed in. There they will be able to see a sharp distinction between the things they do to humor their outer environment and what is a true a manifestation of their inner being.
    How might an ENTP conceive of "inner being"? How is having this Ti experience different for him than just having an INTP experience?

    It goes without saying that such a type is uncommonly important both economically and culturally. If his intentions are good, i.e, if his attitude is not too egocentric, he can render exceptional service as the initiator or promoter of new enterprises. He is the natural champion of all minorities with a future. Because he is able, when oriented more to people than things, to make an intuitive diagnosis of their abilities and potentialities, he can also make men. His capacity to inspire courage or to kindle enthusiasm for anything new is unrivalled..
    Where are you getting these quotes? Can you go into detail on the capability mentioned above?

  8. #38
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    1) The ENTP sees his thinking as means to the end of applying them to his vision in relation to the external world. Rarely it is Thinking for the sake of Thinking itself. It is about solving problems that he has observed or encountered through direct experience.

    The ENTP conceives of his inner being primarily in the regard that it is comprised of ideas remote from the external world, yet ideas that he also feels compelled to connect to his external environment. Much like that of the INTP, yet it is overflown by ongoing perception which is in constant intercourse with the external world. The INTP on the other hand has a much easier time isolated his judgment from the perceptions of the external world.

    2)It goes without saying that such a type is uncommonly important both economically and culturally. If his intentions are good, i.e, if his attitude is not too egocentric, he can render exceptional service as the initiator or promoter of new enterprises. He is the natural champion of all minorities with a future. Because he is able, when oriented more to people than things, to make an intuitive diagnosis of their abilities and potentialities, he can also make men. His capacity to inspire courage or to kindle enthusiasm for anything new is unrivalled..

    The Extroverted Intuitive is naturally in tune with his external environment. As an EP he is very fluid. He is also rich with ideas due to his powerful imagination. The Extroverted nature of such an imagination makes it easy for him to apply his ideas. What we have here is the dynamic nature of Extroverted Perception with fervor for ideas.

    This makes him ideal at presentation of ideas.

    He 'makes men' because he is in tune with their external perceptions. He just knows how to appeal to what makes them 'tick', this is the affinity with image that I have expounded on at great length.

    3)"Extroverted Intuition alone allows for the ENTP to assess the general ambience of the situation and present whatever faade is necessary to achieve a goal, yet the Extroverted Feeling promotes such an endeavor by establishing a clear-cut external agenda." Fe? Examples can wrap around functional nuances that are complex to describe through analysis."

    The ENTP just knows how to present his ideas to others in a way that would appeal to their intuitive 'fancies'. I already covered this point. As for Fe, he may engage in sycophancy, polite behavior and so on, to make his ideas more presentable. As for Ne-Fe interplay, take note of the 'spirit of the times' notion which Ne draws him in close affinity with. Fe of the ENTP will provide people with personal reasons to embrace such a notion as the spirit of the times. Because both of those functions are externally focused, the focus will be on changing the environment for the better in relation to the Ne vision (Ne), and the personal responsibilities people must have to do so. (Fe).


    4)
    "Yes, enigmatically.
    What I'm trying to get a sense of is how Ti primarily plays a supporting role to Ne. Primarily as in overall, not as a director toward its own end, not necessarily leading back to itself. It reads like: Judge in order to Perceive. Thought in the service of Observation. Which seems, well, counterintuitive. But you propose the Ne with its own agenda. Which is ... informed by judgment but not judgment's agenda? ... unconsciously motivated?"

    Yes, the agenda is altogether unconscious because Ne is unconscious. Ne's subtle agenda is being in tune with the external world and collecting information. Ti is means to the end of satisfying this need. Ti transfers this ambition from the unconscious to the conscious. A profound difference between the ENTP and the INTP is that the unconscious drive to interact with the external world (Ne) is stronger than the drive to sit back and analyze. Distinctly, it is vice versa for the INTP as for any introvert. The INTP differs from a typical introvert in the regard that it must not only be solitary contemplation for him, but dispassionate analysis.

    For the INTP, it is judge to perceive. Or extroverted perception/interaction with the external world is not going anywhere until the problem has been thought through thoroughly. The ENTP requires a lot more perception to get his analytical engine running. There it is perceive in order to judge. Perception can be altogether structureless, yet the ENTP is well advised to provide structure for his perceptions lest he involves himself in the reckless behavior mentioned in the profile.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #39
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I'd say ENTJ is a better fit. ENTPs voice hunches more than thoughts.
    Its more like a load of voices in your head all shoting the things each one notices while they all point out what the others are saying as well and so all end up arguing!
    Its quite entertaining at times!

    Imagine having 30 different forms of Ti in your head all at once all figuring stuff out at once but due to not being able to listen to 30 people in your head at once you only really pick up vaguely what there saying and really on the conclusion. And its utter chaos! But if you learn to get the right voices and listen to as many as you can at once and listen to the right ones and pick up the right bits then you get Ne perceptions!
    Least thats the way I think of it in my head. They don't have names or anything or looks they are just voices who argue and some of them have kinda personalities. Like the cynical old man kind and the weird funny one who always comes out my mouth in a high pitched quicky voice.
    I dunno its weird!
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  10. #40
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    If INTPs could audibly broadcast their every thought, they would be ENTPs.
    I don't see anything stopping them
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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