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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default "True" MBTI Antitheses

    I was chatting over on another MBTI forum and someone mentioned that ISFP, not ESFJ, was the true antithesis to INTP.

    I realized at least in terms of pure function use, this is correct.

    ESFJ = Fe + Si + Ne + Ti
    INTP = Ti + Ne + Si + Fe
    ISFP = Fi + Se + Ni + Te

    And it sort of fits with what I've said in the past (and in terms of total shadow function theory), where Fi (and NOT Fe) to me is the worst enemy of Ti because it operates in the exact same sphere as Ti is trying to, but with a completely different set of priorities.

    So for the Ti person, the Fe neighbor might be annoying but they live in the house next door and like to apply their rules to the gardens outside, and so you can accommodate the way they do things, maybe even apply them to your own garden (even if your house inside is run by Ti), because they are applying different rules but in a different sphere than you are.

    However, the Fi person who lives in the same bedroom and house as you is using a completely different set of standards and yet still operating in exactly the same areas as you're trying to. You *will* have disagreement now... and even direct interference if neither of you can back down.

    Which made me ponder: ESFJs used to annoy me in terms of working style, but now I find them a lot of fun and I connect very easily with them. When young, they come off as stubborn and inflexible, but as adults they actually seem to sense the prevailing social attitudes and change with it based on the current needs.

    ISFPs, meanwhile, were usually okay in terms of working style and we had fun together... but on the few occasions I've had to bump heads with them, it was almost impossible to get any sort of compromise. Basically, the Fi values (fueled by Se) are conflicting direction with my Ti values (fueled by Ne). Because we are both I, we'd simply avoid having conflicts and avoid the controversial topic, so as to have a happy comfortable fun time together. But now that I've had a few instances where the ISFP was mad at me for violating their values, we had a lot of distance -- they weren't interested in or able to promote a rational argument to change my mind, and I could not just accommodate their values that I thought were wrong, and so now we had an issue.

    Does anyone else have thoughts on this?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #2
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Makes sense to me.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #3
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Both are dominant introverted judgers. Can't be that antithetical.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Both are dominant introverted judgers. Can't be that antithetical.
    Exactly. Or maybe antithetical is the wrong word, then.

    They are at maximum potential for conflict -- of trying to come at the same situation via opposing means and fueled by opposing input.

    At least with INFPs, the INTP and INFP are both fueling their judgments with Ne. That helps.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member Negative_'s Avatar
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    So basically what you're saying is that the opposite type (as far as how they think, approach a problem, etc...functionally opposite) would be changing the middle two letters, which makes the functions go in opposite order and direction, opposed to just the opposite order (all letters change) or direction (E/I and J/P change), right?

    aka
    intp -> entj = opposite direction (Ti goes to Te, etc)
    intp -> esfj = opposite order (Ti Ne Si Fe -> Fe Si Ne Ti)
    intp -> isfp = both of the above (Ti goes to Fi, Xe goes to Ye, and so on)

    like how Ti is bound to Fe, Se is bound to Ni, etc...so a dominant Fe user and a dominant Ti user are on a more familiar level than a Fi-dom and a Ti-dom.


    As far as behavior goes, ESFJ does seem like the total opposite of INTP, but I understand what you're saying and it makes sense.
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    Good luck convincing me. I've had scrapes with ISFPs, but at least there's a little mutual respect involved. It's not the pure hatred I've had for ESFJs.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negative_ View Post
    So basically what you're saying is that the opposite type (as far as how they think, approach a problem, etc...functionally opposite) would be changing the middle two letters, which makes the functions go in opposite order and direction, opposed to just the opposite order (all letters change) or direction (E/I and J/P change), right?
    I did not really explore it that far, I was actually being lazy and just tossing the idea out to see what others might do with it.

    But I suppose that would be how it would work, technically, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Good luck convincing me.
    Good thing I do not have the time nor inclination to tackle that challenge.

    I've had scrapes with ISFPs, but at least there's a little mutual respect involved. It's not the pure hatred I've had for ESFJs.
    I identify with that into my mid-20's.
    The last 10-15 years, though, my experiences have changed.

    As I said, I think the shared Pe bent makes both types able to flex and unwilling to really get into fights with each other, so they flex around dissenting points leaving a pretty stable easy-going relationship. It's only been in the few instances where the ISFP has a hardcore value (and I would be talking about things like the abortion rights issue, or a marriage breaking up when they have particular religious values on that, or whatever else) that I realize it's almost pointless to discuss the issue, and because they personalize it rather than just seeing it as a conflict, it can derail the relationship as they judge the other person to be "bad" or "immoral" or something similar.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Lol, check out this other topic, it captures just what I have said here!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Jennifer, typelogic.com seems to be in agreement. The INTP's relationship to the ISFP is referred to as the "enigma".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    As I said, I think the shared Pe bent makes both types able to flex and unwilling to really get into fights with each other, so they flex around dissenting points leaving a pretty stable easy-going relationship. It's only been in the few instances where the ISFP has a hardcore value (and I would be talking about things like the abortion rights issue, or a marriage breaking up when they have particular religious values on that, or whatever else) that I realize it's almost pointless to discuss the issue, and because they personalize it rather than just seeing it as a conflict, it can derail the relationship as they judge the other person to be "bad" or "immoral" or something similar.
    My dad's ISFP, I know the drill. Point is, ISFPs tend to be good at things I care about, and have personalities which don't make me want to commit suicide. Though we may disagree on things from time to time.

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