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  1. #91
    loopy Ulaes's Avatar
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    ^ not final

  2. #92
    Member INTPatricia's Avatar
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    I can handle the "middle code opposites" in the opposite sex but not in same sex relationships. For example, as an intp female, I am compatible with an ISFP male but cannot abide an ISFP female (and it is mutual). I believe this is because the isfp female thinks I "should" behave in certain ways and he does not.

    I am not a fan of ESFJ females.

  3. #93
    Member INTPatricia's Avatar
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    I am an intp female and I like ISFP males but not the ISFP females and the feelings are mutual all the way around.

  4. #94
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    as i understand it the shadow functions exist in an individual by not being there. as we mature we are rounded off, and what extinguishes Ti? Fe. Fe is the intps last function because the dominant function is too hard to take down. the secondary function is too easily challenged so hence its shadow is only the third function. this is why esfj anf intp are anthical to one another - Ti and Fe cannot function at the same time, one will interrupt the other. they naturally repulse each other.am i being vague? probably so oops, i mean, so what if i am.
    See, I disagree with this.
    I don't think "extinguish" is the right word.

    Ti is concerned with the nature of things -- their universal identity (rather than a value imposed by the perceiver, as Fi does).
    Fe meanwhile is concerned about the role each pieces plays in the interpersonal web as per its social value (which is cultural-dependent, rather than Te which focuses on each piece's pragmatic/practical value).

    These are two different fields of focus.
    Hence neither needs to "extinguish" the other.

    Functions are tricky anyway -- is an INTP's understanding and expression of Fe going to resemble an ESFJ's version of Fe? Or are they actually different things altogether?

    I'm not even sure that types "develop functions" as much as learn how to emulate them via their primary and secondary, to be honest.

    ive always [whimiscally] thought that Ti was complemented by Fi. i think isfps are the other half of our gemini-twin introvert thingy (yes, very technical) so we fill in each others gaps and a create a whole. getting even more technical now- i see esfj as a threat to my comfort (and if i were subjected to obey their lifestyle i would be in hell) and isfp just as someone who's doing it wrong. i see the intp/esfp relationship rather than the intp/isfp relationship as one destined for less misunderstanding as their functions only provide things the other dose not have and dont challenge one another/cause stress.
    What I find is that ISFP and INTP naturally "play well" together in terms of working styles... but heaven stand back if the Fi values do not mesh with the Ti values -- there's almost no way to reconcile that. The truce is simply because both types are internal judgers and extroverted perceivers, and both would rather downplay conflict and allow each other to go their merry way than fight... but if the situation is such that neither can withdraw, it's going to get very very ugly. When my Ti has conflicted with someone's Fi, I have a shot to reconcile with INFPs because of their Ne matching mine.... but ISFP? It's been frustrating how difficult it has been. There are some ISFPs on this forum who I really like, but who I have learned not to bother engaging if we do run across a different in valuesets... because I already know there's never going to be an agreement. They feel they can't budge, I don't feel I can budge, and at best we can agree to disagree -- again, a "working style" solution where we avoid pointless conflict.

    Meanwhile, ESFJ and INTP friction is primarily a working style problem. We both approach situations differently. But I've found that if I can engage ESFJs, they actually can see value in my approach and vice versa, and it's more a matter of them being an ambassador of their specialty and teaching me the "social ropes" and I teach them how to look under the surface and see the underlying structure. there's a lot of meshing that can be done, if you get past the surface issues. I feel that I can actually engage ESFJs and get somewhere, despite the initial fireworks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #95
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What I find is that ISFP and INTP naturally "play well" together in terms of working styles... but heaven stand back if the Fi values do not mesh with the Ti values -- there's almost no way to reconcile that. The truce is simply because both types are internal judgers and extroverted perceivers, and both would rather downplay conflict and allow each other to go their merry way than fight... but if the situation is such that neither can withdraw, it's going to get very very ugly. When my Ti has conflicted with someone's Fi, I have a shot to reconcile with INFPs because of their Ne matching mine.... but ISFP? It's been frustrating how difficult it has been. There are some ISFPs on this forum who I really like, but who I have learned not to bother engaging if we do run across a different in valuesets... because I already know there's never going to be an agreement. They feel they can't budge, I don't feel I can budge, and at best we can agree to disagree -- again, a "working style" solution where we avoid pointless conflict.
    My experience exactly, recently. And ironically, the people involved thought I was an Fi preferrer myself, and so compatible with both the ISFP and an INFP. (who as you said I could relate to on the Ne level).
    The biggest common similarity of those types is the Behind the Scenes Interaction Style, and/or IP "sociability temperament". Since, it's about "interaction" and "sociability", they will be very similar on the surface.
    Meanwhile, ESFJ and INTP friction is primarily a working style problem. We both approach situations differently. But I've found that if I can engage ESFJs, they actually can see value in my approach and vice versa, and it's more a matter of them being an ambassador of their specialty and teaching me the "social ropes" and I teach them how to look under the surface and see the underlying structure. there's a lot of meshing that can be done, if you get past the surface issues. I feel that I can actually engage ESFJs and get somewhere, despite the initial fireworks.
    My experience with my wife (who's always too busy to participate in the forum these days!)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Jennifer, typelogic.com seems to be in agreement. The INTP's relationship to the ISFP is referred to as the "enigma".
    They're also the same people that match compatability by flipping the E/I letter. If you put an INTJ and an ENTJ in the same room and they have comflicting conclusions, at least one of them will end up dead.

    I personally see the ESFJ as a complete opposite to me.

  7. #97
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortabunt View Post
    If you put an INTJ and an ENTJ in the same room and they have comflicting conclusions, at least one of them will end up dead.
    My, that's a little dark, isn't it?

    ... I think INTJ would be afraid to get blood on their hands, they'd find a sneakier way to do it later, without any risk.

    I personally see the ESFJ as a complete opposite to me.
    Clarify why (to more granularity, as others have above) please.

    I don't think it's been argued that ESFJ doesn't behave opposite to INTP, the argument is more nuanced than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The biggest common similarity of those types is the Behind the Scenes Interaction Style, and/or IP "sociability temperament". Since, it's about "interaction" and "sociability", they will be very similar on the surface.
    Ah, there we go -- Interaction Styles.
    Yeah.

    INTP, INFP, ISFJ, and ISFP.

    That's hilarious... I do have a number of friends in each of those sectors, I get along with them very very well. And it's all the working style... basically the interactions are low-key, everyone respects everyone else, is courteous/considerate, everyone's careful to not step on toes, etc. as far as perceptions go, INFP is the close (with the Ne in charge)... and when I clash with them it is always over values -- "someone should have done <this>" or "<this> was a really awful thing to do" they believe, and I usually am saying, "But it was inevitable in that situation" or "From your standpoint it seems that way, but that's not always true... that person wasn't necessarily wrong/bad."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #98
    Senior Member Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Interesting theorizing. I myself like the constellation of ISFP-INTP. "Female land" (a strong attachment to the actual world) vs "male land" (a strong detachment from the actual world). There are certain parallells, perhaps parallells of opposites. My only long-time friend is a (female) ISFP.

    Sorry I'm not too wordy, I did go over the thread effortfully, but just catched some things here and there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The feeling that humanity didn't turn out the way it was supposed to?
    Have you ever looked at enneagram type 1?
    INtj | 9w1

  9. #99
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    In Kiersey's Please understand me II, it states that NTs and SJs are oposites, while NTs and the others share some similarities. They might act similarly because of these inferiors, but that doesn't stop them from being opposites when acting normally.
    5 3 9

  10. #100
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Berens links those with the
    "Focus on structure" dimension. (And the other two are "focus on motive"). I see those as a big similarity, as structure/motive is another kind of task vs people focus or "agreeableness" (like directing/informing in the Interaction Styles).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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