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  1. #81
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ooo now brain forming a mobius loop trying to understand that.

    Spatial logic would be when there are more than two 100%?

    Would spatial logic be a colour wheel with black in the centre, white on the outside and pretty much every colour in between laid out with blue, red and green?

    Would spatial logic be positional co-ordinates with three co-ordinates where as linear logic would position you only in X&Y or X&Z or Y&Z?
    There is no difference between the spatial and the linear object of study.

    The difference is an indifference.

    The zero is not a number.

    It is a sign of a vacuum or alternatively it employs the number one in either one or the other end of the linear spectrum.

    A vacuum inflates the object when it is inside.
    Does it deflate the object when it is outside?
    It is not outside.

    What is not there is not a number of a count. It is not before a count.
    There is nothing before an intiation = nothing is there before an initiation = zero is there before an initiation.
    What is not of a successive order does not success an order.
    Hence the zero comes handy in spatial logic.

    It is a sign of an initiation and it does not have a hand.

    Does the onlooker affect the object of the study?
    It looks that way.

    Does the onlooker affect the object of study?




    The way you see the inside or the outside of the object does not depend on the object.

  2. #82
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    How many tools do we have?

    E = J/P

    J = T/F

    P = N/S

    That's it.

    Hence
    E: T>N = J>P
    I: N>T = J>P

    ENTJ: Te Ni = ENTP Ne Ti
    INTJ: Ni Te = INTP Ti Ne

    E: F>S = J>P
    I: S>F = J>P;

    ESFJ: Fe Si = ESFP: Se Fi
    ISFJ: Si Fe = ISFP: Fi Se;

    E: N>T = P>J

    I: T>N = P>J;

    E: S>F = P>J
    I: F>S = P>J;

    If Ne>Ni, Fe Fi?

    INFJ

    Ni Fe Fi Ne
    >

    INFP

    Fi Ne Ni Fe

    >

    ISTP 1-4: Ti Se Si Te =

    INFP 5-8 =
    ESTJ 4-1;

    ENFJ 5-8 = ESTJ 1-4

  3. #83
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Whoa!!

    Your getting carried away now kitty!!

    E: T>N only when J>P other wise it's N>T as in the case of ENTP.

    Your reflecting the MBTI order with incorrect mathematics. That'll lead your results off on a tangent **mutters something about that not being unusual**

    :grin:

    How's about integrating shadow and primary like the normal function order 1,2:7,8 ?

    I think they represent it like that (after much consideration) because it's 1,2,7&8 in terms of development but 1,2,3&4 in terms of use when including the subconscious.

    Does that make sense?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #84
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Whoa!!

    Your getting carried away now kitty!!

    E: T>N only when J>P other wise it's N>T as in the case of ENTP.

    Your reflecting the MBTI order with incorrect mathematics. That'll lead your results off on a tangent **mutters something about that not being unusual**

    :grin:

    How's about integrating shadow and primary like the normal function order 1,2:7,8 ?

    I think they represent it like that (after much consideration) because it's 1,2,7&8 in terms of development but 1,2,3&4 in terms of use when including the subconscious.

    Does that make sense?
    Yes.
    What is not unusual?

    What is incorrect in the post 85? As I myself do not see the typo could you please elaborate? I am grateful you correct me if I have done an error but please tell me where it is.

    What do you mean by incorrect math?

    Do you mean my chart? Of course it is incorrect if you deem the MBTI 16 to be God's only revelation.

    INTP = P

    Ti Ne = INTP. It is however a P unit.

    E = J/P

    ENTJ = Te Ni; ENTP = Ne Ti

    E: J>P: T>N

    I do not see an error or incorrect math.

  5. #85
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    If E = J/P then what does I=?
    If I = P/J then what is an INTJ?
    What you mean is that E= J>P and I =P>J. That would still be inconsistent with my observations but the math would be more accurate.

    As for the keep doing... I was being facetious. I was of course referring to our shared ability to explore tangents instead of staying on topic
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #86
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    :grin:

    How's about integrating shadow and primary like the normal function order 1,2:7,8 ?

    I think they represent it like that (after much consideration) because it's 1,2,7&8 in terms of development but 1,2,3&4 in terms of use when including the subconscious.

    Does that make sense?[/QUOTE]


    So they have the development and a differently arranged subconscious all messed up in one representation?
    What seems sense to me is to disregard the MBTI 16 and start all over again.
    I cannot understand how it ever can have been accepted.

    Is that what you wanted to say?

  7. #87
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    If E = J/P then what does I=?
    If I = P/J then what is an INTJ?
    What you mean is that E= J>P and I =P>J. That would still be inconsistent with my observations but the math would be more accurate.

    As for the keep doing... I was being facetious. I was of course referring to our shared ability to explore tangents instead of staying on topic
    So that is what you meant. Yes, I expected you to comment on it; I tried to prevent it somehow but did not manage to do it. .

    It is a tricky thing.

    The dichotomy of E is P and J: represented by N,S and T,F respectively.

    The question is appellation or rather, a definition.

    T is a rational function, yes.

    I tried to discuss this a year ago with you.

    Ti Ne = a P process.

    P: Ti Ne > J: Ni Te;

    I: T>N = P>J

    I never saw this as a contradiction. Ti is J as a function. It is P as a process.

  8. #88
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    What?
    Functions AND Processes????

    What's the difference?
    The process followed to be Ti is quite J. Also Ti as primary is a J function, inside for introverts and outside for extroverts.

    Ti refers to how the process works where as the E/I defines where it is applied. Hence ENTP is more practical than INTP despite being the same functions in a very slightly different order.

    I'm thinking now that function order may be a waste of time.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #89
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What?
    Functions AND Processes????

    What's the difference?
    The process followed to be Ti is quite J. Also Ti as primary is a J function, inside for introverts and outside for extroverts.

    Ti refers to how the process works where as the E/I defines where it is applied. Hence ENTP is more practical than INTP despite being the same functions in a very slightly different order.

    I'm thinking now that function order may be a waste of time.
    There is this Heart thread about the Fudjack&Dinkelacker test just below the line. There is the same story. If you look there you see the appellation of the primary function is not the appellation of the type in an introvert.

    I never thought E = P/J hence I = J/P.

    When I say E = P/J I mean the dichotomy of E is P and J.
    The order of P and J is insignificant in this context. I could say the dichotomy of E is J and P as well.
    This is the problem of language or any other linear conception. One is before the other. It is a problem of representation.

    Ne Ti Fe Si is 01278 hence Ti Ne Si Fe is 21087.

    Is the right left of the left? Zero is the initiation before the number.
    The latter number reads like the previous number. Start with zero and follow after. 012.. 78. You read 01278.
    It is like cryptic writing.
    NTFS either way. Introvert or extravert, it does not matter.
    Ne Ti Fe Si = 01278 and Ti Ne Si Fe is 21087.

    Socionics turned the table. But it is already turned.

  10. #90
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Errm is it just me or are you just turning the order around to suit the system you have conceived?

    12345 is not the same as 34512 except in loops. Loops are still in only one plane and hence not spatial. A more accurate terminology would be cyclical.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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