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  1. #51
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The difference between the INs is the counterpart of the difference between the ESs.

    The opposite is not the opposite of the opposite.

    What turns around comes around.

    You do not do a thing about it.

    What is the idea of the shadow?
    Yes 180 degrees plus 180 degrees returns your facing back to it's original direction. I don't understand the criticism. Where have we been talking about a 360 degree rotation?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #52
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay what's an ambivert?
    I read a biography of Einstein recently.

    The biographer had studied the private letters of Einstein. The posts he had written to his immediate colleagues while he worked in the patent office in Bern. The period of his great discoveries.

    What was the subject of the posts?

    Ambiversion.

    How we do equate?
    By the ambiverted principle.

    The ambivert is not the locker.

    The ambivert has two positions.

    1. The unlocked. It goes either way.
    2. The locked.

  3. #53
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Right we know that IP = EJ and that IJ = EP that's because there's only two ways of doing it and four groups to cover. However how does this rationalise out? What is it about introverted perceptives which is parallel to extroverted judgementals aside from their function order?

    I think that this will be useful in understanding the system as a whole. After this point there will be the last piece of the puzzle fixed.

    See if the person is NT then their preferences are either NT or TN.
    If the person is SF then the preferences are either SF or FS.

    The piece that is missing is which one is first and is it extroverted or introverted.

    Basically there are 4 not 16 broad groups of people. NT, NF, ST & SF. This is where Jung and the MBTI start.

    Within these groups there are four types. EJ, EP, IJ & IP. So we can quite reasonably say that it's not really 16 types per se but four groups and within each there are four temperaments.

    However this only give us the MBTI system, it doesn't say why the system hangs together, which is what we are querying.

    So why are IPs similar to EJs?
    Why are IJs similar to EPs?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #54
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Right we know that IP = EJ and that IJ = EP that's because there's only two ways of doing it and four groups to cover. However how does this rationalise out? What is it about introverted perceptives which is parallel to extroverted judgementals aside from their function order?

    I think that this will be useful in understanding the system as a whole. After this point there will be the last piece of the puzzle fixed.

    See if the person is NT then their preferences are either NT or TN.
    If the person is SF then the preferences are either SF or FS.

    The piece that is missing is which one is first and is it extroverted or introverted.

    Basically there are 4 not 16 broad groups of people. NT, NF, ST & SF. This is where Jung and the MBTI start.

    Within these groups there are four types. EJ, EP, IJ & IP. So we can quite reasonably say that it's not really 16 types per se but four groups and within each there are four temperaments.

    However this only give us the MBTI system, it doesn't say why the system hangs together, which is what we are querying.

    So why are IPs similar to EJs?
    Why are IJs similar to EPs?
    IP is conditionally EJ. IJ is conditionally EP.

    Judgemental versus non judgemental condition.

    Point counter point. Each point counter each point. How many groups in 16?

  5. #55
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    IP is conditionally EJ. IJ is conditionally EP.

    Judgemental versus non judgemental condition.

    Point counter point. Each point counter each point. How many groups in 16?
    Okay now I have the Banana Splits theme tune running through my head... Thanks.

    The counter to what now?

    There's four groups, each SUBdivided into four. There are 16 subdivisions and not 16 groups. Capisce?

    How is IP conditionally EJ? Are you saying that IP becomes EJ under certain conditions? If so then doesn't everybody do like that?

    Have you an example? We always do much better with an example to go by.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #56
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay now I have the Banana Splits theme tune running through my head... Thanks.

    The counter to what now?

    There's four groups, each SUBdivided into four. There are 16 subdivisions and not 16 groups. Capisce?

    How is IP conditionally EJ? Are you saying that IP becomes EJ under certain conditions? If so then doesn't everybody do like that?

    Have you an example? We always do much better with an example to go by.
    EJ and IP oppose each other as regards to assertiveness.

    EJ = assertive

    In other words, to be assertive you have to be both E and J.

    To be non assertive you have to be both I and P.

    EP and IJ are not about assertiveness.


    In a similar vain, you have to be both E and S to be extraverted.
    Hence you have to be both I and N to be introverted.

    IS and EN are not about extraversion.

    Do you mean the Keirsey subdivision?

  7. #57
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    So if your primary function is a judging one then you're either spineless and introverted or extroverted and a pain in the ass?

    That doesn't sound right. What about the shy extrovert? The shy ENTJ or the shy ESFJ?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #58
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    So if your primary function is a judging one then you're either spineless and introverted or extroverted and a pain in the ass?

    That doesn't sound right. What about the shy extrovert? The shy ENTJ or the shy ESFJ?
    The shy ESFJ? You are joking. Assertive people are not shy.
    ENTJ is not an extravert, true. But if need be he can turn himself on. When he has the motive.
    What do you mean by four groups? What groups?

    If you have lost your vertebral column I decisively advise you to seek a doctor.

  9. #59
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The shy ESFJ? You are joking. Assertive people are not shy.
    ENTJ is not an extravert, true. But if need be he can turn himself on. When he has the motive.
    What do you mean by four groups? What groups?

    If you have lost your vertebral column I decisively advise you to seek a doctor.
    my ENTJ friend is getting depressed from lack of motive, and it's making her more of a pain in the ass than when she is in a good mood...

  10. #60
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    my ENTJ friend is getting depressed from lack of motive, and it's making her more of a pain in the ass than when she is in a good mood...
    She maybe frustrated if she has not discovered her vocation, fate or destiny.
    The motive is there but she has to discover it.

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