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Let's rethink J/P

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Decisiveness seems hardly the word to distinguish J from P. P seem awfully decisive about many things, so then you get off-hand explanations: P can be decisive about something, if ..

Flexibility? I'm not that much in favor of that word to describe P anymore. J can become uncomfortable with the progress and the general mood of a project, but endure anyway. Now that's flexibility, just other kind than it is to "flex" elsewhere.

Process- or result orientation? J care about the end result, P about the process. This seems a bit more like it. I don't like how this is generally explained tho; (edit: by the common stereotype,) J marshal their way to victory, damned if anyone steps in the way! P are wishy-washy feel-gooders, smelling the flowers while not necessarily accomplishing anyway. (edit: disclaimer: I am not, and I was not in favor of this interpretation of J/P behavior.)

I guess we know the goods / bads of each, but I'd just like to form a good explanation of it, something that gives a balanced view of the subject in perhaps 2-4 sentences. We could form this explanation together and put in a FAQ post along with some other FAQ-worthy questions.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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I don't agree with you. You are not a P, hence, you are making alot of faulty asumptions about being a P. P have same goals as Js and they will kill anyone that stand between their way and their goals, but at the same time, they are not obstinate and stubborn when they realize there is no way to reach their goal.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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And that's the J on that.

Someone wake Edahn up. This bitch is ready to be closed.
 

Synarch

Once Was
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I'd actually like to see BlueWing's take on this. Is there a way to summon him? Maybe by impugning his logic?

Man, BlueWing's logic is so flawed.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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Process- or result orientation? J care about the end result, P about the process. This seems a bit more like it. I don't like how this is generally explained tho; J marshal their way to victory, damned if anyone steps in the way! P are wishy-washy feel-gooders, smelling the flowers while not necessarily accomplishing anyway.

I guess we know the goods / bads of each, but I'd just like to form a good explanation of it, something that gives a balanced view of the subject in perhaps 2-4 sentences. We could form this explanation together and put in a FAQ post along with some other FAQ-worthy questions.

Actually, Linda Berens has just renamed the Interaction Style cross factors of "Control vs Movement" as "Outcome vs Process". Behind the Scene (ISF/INP) and In Charge (EST/ENJ) focus on the Outcome (end result) and Chart the Course (IST/INJ) and Get Things going (ESF/ENP) focus on the process.

I would just use Keirsey's alternate meanings for the J/P dichotomy: Scheduling vs Probing. That seems to cover it pretty accurately, without necessarily leading to the stereotypes (e.g: One can be "scheduling' in other ways without being neat).
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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I'd actually like to see BlueWing's take on this. Is there a way to summon him? Maybe by impugning his logic?

Man, BlueWing's logic is so flawed.

No need to outsource J.
We already Jd it.

Come on dudes, it's Jd.
End thread.
 

Synarch

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That's interesting, Eric. I like Get Things Going.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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Uhh people I was expressing the stereotypes to get the discussion open. Chill out now. I'm not saying P people just smell the flowers, lol. That's supposed to be the stereotype to be debunked. Still, people are quite ready to say equally unflattering things about Js. What I want, is some consensus and better understanding. Don't let old stereotypes stay in the way. Piss off btw, anyone who thought of me advocating any of that shit.

Morons.
 

Synarch

Once Was
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It's been rethunk. J's sucked it. NTP's all representing up in here.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Silly, you. What's got you so worked up? Inventing insults for the likes of nocap would degrade me on his level. Don't expect me to get provoked any time soon.

Meanwhile, Eric. B pointed out something worthwhile. That'll keep me busy.

Any moderator involvement would just get your posts deleted in here, so don't your hopes up, angsty.
 

Jack Flak

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Oh, those Js. Always thinking "standards" mean something.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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Those interaction style cross factors seem interesting, but I've not read her theory why she's decided them that way. I'll read at the first opportunity.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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OK, this is Berren's idea. Curiously she has 3 J's and 1 P, or 3 P's and 1 J per interaction style. I'm guessing the additional material will require more reading time than I have available at the moment.

Meanwhile, do keep the conversation civil.

Perhaps trying another day.
 

Jack Flak

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Berren? Sounds like a bunch of J hogwash to me. That's just my oPinion tho.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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Nubbishness.

Sheer nubbishness. The P and J muddling can be undiscombobulated only by differential.
Practical attentiveness is weak in most who study type. Hence the betwixation.

Pay attention.
This is a legitimate source of frustration.
 
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