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Let's rethink J/P

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Oy vey.

It's funny how something totally innocuous can turn into such a merciless beatdown with just the addition of a few Ps.

New dichotomy
P = Pugilist
J = Judo
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Oy vey.

It's funny how something totally innocuous can turn into such a merciless beatdown with just the addition of a few Ps.
TPs.
I'm taking as much credit for this as I can.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
...What the hell happened here? Where is this animosity all coming from?
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Oh, I thought we were all cool. What happened?


You didn't see The Flak with the broken coke bot..? well...

It did get kind of ugly after the second gouge.
We taped it all. You can rewind and watch for yourself.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Some collected Ps are doing a disfavor to their kind by showing their collective power.

That is, how much they can stink when they really put their mind into it.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This is so weird. Also funny.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Seriously... any NTP what's earned his stripes is an enemy too formidable for any but their own kind.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
Decisiveness seems hardly the word to distinguish J from P. P seem awfully decisive about many things, so then you get off-hand explanations: P can be decisive about something, if ..

Flexibility? I'm not that much in favor of that word to describe P anymore. J can become uncomfortable with the progress and the general mood of a project, but endure anyway. Now that's flexibility, just other kind than it is to "flex" elsewhere.

Process- or result orientation? J care about the end result, P about the process. This seems a bit more like it. I don't like how this is generally explained tho; (edit: by the common stereotype,) J marshal their way to victory, damned if anyone steps in the way! P are wishy-washy feel-gooders, smelling the flowers while not necessarily accomplishing anyway. (edit: disclaimer: I am not, and I was not in favor of this interpretation of J/P behavior.)

I guess we know the goods / bads of each, but I'd just like to form a good explanation of it, something that gives a balanced view of the subject in perhaps 2-4 sentences. We could form this explanation together and put in a FAQ post along with some other FAQ-worthy questions.

My aapologies. I have misread what you said.

P are more concerned with the process than Js, becausing imporving the process will improve the probability of reaching the goal. And P's don't impose unrealistic demands on themselves and on other people, such as expecting a megaproject or enormous workload be done at the end of today or tommoow.
When P is given such a worload, he would most likely to say fuck it and use it to start a fire, while a J would try to finish it no matter the cost.

there, I hope that simplifies things. :)
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
My aapologies. I have misread what you said.

P are more concerned with the process than Js, becausing imporving the process will improve the probability of reaching the goal. And P's don't impose unrealistic demands on themselves and on other people, such as expecting a megaproject or enormous workload be done at the end of today or tommoow.
When P is given such a worload, he would most likely to say fuck it and use it to start a fire, while a J would try to finish it no matter the cost.

there, I hope that simplifies things. :)

I don't see being hard-headed the hallmark of J. Not that, or inability to calculate. J represents half the population, and most of them aren't nearly that bad in estimating project lengths.

I suspected Js to be some anti-fun type or someone too fixated on their projects, until I noticed a recent test to clearly type me as one. I hadn't become such at heart; but I had to reduce the time for leisure in order to finish a project successfully. I calculated the costs and decided that completion is more important than good mood, and started it.

It's not easy, it's not fun, but it's doable with hard work. It's also rather reliable and doesn't involve novel concepts or luck this time. I'm grudgingly accepting it only because I want to pay off some of my debts in advance so that I can focus on an upcoming education, and find time to seek a new job. It's heck of an investment.

In my opinion, I could have done all of that as P, except to accept that the method to most probably get my finances right involve loads and loads of dull work as opposed to something novel and inventive. But, it works, and only requires me to endure it. Life can be more creative and free-form starting from November or December.
 

Mort Belfry

Rats off to ya!
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
INTP
What a bunch of children you all are, it reminds me why I stop coming here.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
The way I understand the difference between J & P is that it has to do with the way you prefer to structure your environment, or at least, the way you do that can help you decide if you're a J or a P.

This information is taken from the Barron & Tieger website - personalitytype.com.

They ask:


What kind of environment makes you the most comfortable?

Judgers prefer a structured, ordered, and fairly predictable environment, where they can make decisions and have things settled. Perceivers prefer to experience as much of the world as possible, so they like to keep their options open and are most comfortable adapting. So, Judgers tend to be organized and productive while Perceivers tend to be flexible, curious, and nonconforming.

Judgers often:
* Make most decisions pretty easily
* Are serious & conventional
* Pay attention to time & are prompt
* Prefer to finish projects
* Work first, play later
* Want things decided
* See the need for most rules
* Like to make & stick with plans
* Find comfort in schedules

Perceivers often:
* May have difficulty making decisions
* Are playful & unconventional
* Are less aware of time & run late
* Prefer to start projects
* Play first, work later
* Want to keep their options open
* Question the need for many rules
* Like to keep plans flexible
* Want the freedom to be spontaneous
 
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