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  1. #41
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I can mostly agree to that list, INTJmom. I'd still have to think about how to describe the inner thought processes and world view of both groups.

    Most I disagree with what kind of environment I'd need; I don't think I have a preference for that in the terms expressed in those descriptions.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post

    Judgers prefer a structured, ordered, and fairly predictable environment, where they can make decisions and have things settled.

    Judgers often:
    * Are serious & conventional
    * See the need for most rules
    * Find comfort in schedules
    As much as I like the Tiegers, I think these particular phrases apply far more to SJs than to NJs. These kinds of things create the stereotypes about J and P. While Judging is definitely about finding closure (coming to judgments) and Perceiving is definitely about staying open (allowing more perceptions), few NJs really want structure, order, rules and schedules. Ugh!!!

    What is generally true, though, is that mature Judging types have a keen sense of how long things will take--if people do it their way. So what might seem like a reasonable deadline to a J (who has already decided how many options to explore, etc., and internally quantified the length of time the project SHOULD take) might seem constraining to a P who still thinks there are other things that should be explored.

    Yes there are J's who think everyone should sell their souls to meet an unrealistic deadline, but there are also P's who think that saying "Make it so" will get things done in unrealistic time frames. Both are forms of immaturity/control issues/codependency/things far removed from normal differences in J/P behavior...
    edcoaching

  3. #43
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I don't know about the debate, but I'll highlight what of the list I find to be truthful for myself:

    Judgers often:
    * Make most decisions pretty easily
    * Pay attention to time & are prompt
    * Prefer to finish projects
    * Find comfort in schedules

    Absolutely NOT:

    * See the need for most rules
    The only rules I see the need for are physical laws. You can't contradict them. Human rules are instead a completely arbitrary construct.
    * Are serious & conventional
    I don't see how this follows from being J; or, rather, I see how this may follow from "seeing the need for most rules", but not from the other parts of the description.

    As far as process/result goes: socionics provides a tool called "Renin Dichotomies" (a mathematical extension of the usual 4 dichotomies), and among them there's a process-result one: STJ NFJ SFP NTP are the process types, NTJ SFJ STP NFP are the result types.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    /thread lol just end it

    Js search for closure. it doesn't mean that they cant take their good old time to find that closure but they need to have it eventually. Ps dont search for closure, in fact, they would rather their not be closure just like Js would be uncomfortable with leaving things open.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

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  5. #45
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    OK, this is Berren's idea. Curiously she has 3 J's and 1 P, or 3 P's and 1 J per interaction style. I'm guessing the additional material will require more reading time than I have available at the moment.
    The Interaction Styles are basically the old traditional "social" version of the temperaments, based on I/E and people-task orientation (the latter which Berens calls "Informing" and "Directing"). D/Inf does not map directly to the MBTI dichotomies, but it can be divided according to S and N. For S types, T/F indicate D/Inf, and for N types, it is J/P. This is "mirrored" in the Keirseyan temperaments by another pair of facets Berens brought out: Structure (J for S's; T for N's) and Motive (P for S's; F for N's). So in either case; J will tend to be more serious (along with T), and P (along with F) will tend to be less so.
    Blend them all together, you get the groups being mentioned in a couple concurrent threads: TJ's tending to be the most serious; FP's the least so, and TP's and FJ's inbetween.
    I don't see being hard-headed the hallmark of J.
    In my experience; J's will often accuse P's of being hard headed, and even "rigid", because they refuse to do things they way they think they should be done, or to even bend on it. But it's usually a result of the P not wanting to be forced into the J's "scheduling" ways. Quite ironic, isn't it!
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  6. #46
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Ahh, J/P isn't one function.. it doesn't tell anything about one function, but a set of functions. Depends on I/E, too.

    I'm claiming J/P as the most useless categorization if used alone, tho when combined with something else, it describes something more specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    /thread lol just end it
    Just stop readin', foo, and keep it at that..

    You don't see anyone else announcing shit like that, either.

    p.s. I think I'm gonna take a dump now.

    p.p.s. and I'll stop reading, too.

    p.p.p.s. I came back.

    p.p.p.p.s. I resumed reading.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I'm claiming J/P as the most useless categorization if used alone, tho when combined with something else, it describes something more specific.
    No, pfffft. Like, how could...What I'm trying to say here....If I turned on the TV....I just...I just....Look, you and me, we're....It's hard to explain...For example, fifty percent of the population of this country is just....

  8. #48
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    / thread



    lol
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  9. #49
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    / thread



    lol
    Thanks for throwing more garbage into this wreck of a thread.

    Do you shit on the floors at your home, too?
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  10. #50
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Js -like riules, have strong work ethic, scheduled, hates suprises, work before play, hates entropy and disorder, likes hierarchy,

    P's-hates riules, likes entropy, takes uncalculated risks, procrastinator, antihierarchy, often late for work, will only work for things that dserve their best interests

    J high conscious
    P's low conscious

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