User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 124

  1. #31
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    I see those articles as saying something other than changing type preferences, personality can certainly change but I question whether our MBTI type can. For example, can an introverted person change their makeup to get their energy from external factors or an extraverted person from internal factors for anything other than short periods or without mental issues or drug influences?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I have read that it doesn't. It matures and develops and balances out as we develop our other functions,
    but a person does not fundamentally change.
    That would be how I've always thought it to be but I've seen plenty of people talk about how they have or will change type and I'm curious to see how they came to that conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I think of type as a trend or tendency to do certain things. Sometimes that tendency is to look for patterns, sometimes not. Sometimes it's to put things into logical order and view things objectively, sometimes not. Sometimes...you get the idea. Of course these things change over time, even minute to minute.
    I'd say everyone has an element of each preference and as mum says "it matures and develops and balances out as we develop our other functions" but do you see these tendencies as changing or just using non-dominant functions?

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    mbti = nature, enneagram = nurture
    Like that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloomy-optimist View Post
    I'm still not entirely convinced; people are all essentially "wired" in a similar fashion at birth. I believe that personality and personality type is essentially learned; in the very early years of development, one takes preference to certain qualities, rather than them simply being there.
    Can't say I'm entirely convinced either although in the past I have always considered it to be hard wired and looking at my 3 year old nephew I can see preferences there that are seperate to his personality.

  2. #32
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    I see those articles as saying something other than changing type preferences, personality can certainly change but I question whether our MBTI type can. For example, can an introverted person change their makeup to get their energy from external factors or an extraverted person from internal factors for anything other than short periods or without mental issues or drug influences?
    One of the studies talked about how low sociability was related to low serotonin, so it's conceivable that if a depressed person with low serotonin does something naturally or with drugs that causes his serotonin levels to go up and possibly become more sociable and extroverted, this could definitely show and change someone MBTI results.

    Not that I think all introverts are depressed in any way of course, though there is some sort of trend that does exist.

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    ...
    That would be how I've always thought it to be but I've seen plenty of people talk about how they have or will change type and I'm curious to see how they came to that conclusion.
    ...
    I always assume they are novices.

  4. #34
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    One of the studies talked about how low sociability was related to low serotonin, so it's conceivable that if a depressed person with low serotonin does something naturally or with drugs that causes his serotonin levels to go up and possibly become more sociable and extroverted, this could definitely show and change someone MBTI results.

    Not that I think all introverts are depressed in any way of course, though there is some sort of trend that does exist.
    Sure I can see how that would have an effect on personality but I can't see how someone could actually change type, considering extravert and introvert are not about how out-going or sociable someone is but rather how they get energy I wouldn’t imagine that would change significantly or is that what you're suggesting?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I always assume they are novices.


    Me too actually but I figured it was somewhat dismissive of me to make an assumption without giving it consideration *shrug*

  5. #35
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Can't say I'm entirely convinced either although in the past I have always considered it to be hard wired and looking at my 3 year old nephew I can see preferences there that are seperate to his personality.
    That would be about the age that preferences would really begin to set in. The toddler years are crucial to development; the ages between birth and the age 5 are when kids learn most from their parents and begin to learn from society. They take all their cues, and then begin taking preference. It's really amazing how quickly a child learns even in the first 2 years


    Also, with continued drug use or a severe trauma, emotional, physical, etc., intense personality changes can and sometimes do take place. In these cases, it is very likely that someone's preference in one or more areas do completely change; that would cause a change in MBTI type.

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    ...


    Me too actually but I figured it was somewhat dismissive of me to make an assumption without giving it consideration *shrug*
    I agree. I verify my assessment first, and then pat myself on the shoulder for being right.

  7. #37
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gloomy-optimist View Post
    That would be about the age that preferences would really begin to set in. The toddler years are crucial to development; the ages between birth and the age 5 are when kids learn most from their parents and begin to learn from society. They take all their cues, and then begin taking preference. It's really amazing how quickly a child learns even in the first 2 years


    Also, with continued drug use or a severe trauma, emotional, physical, etc., intense personality changes can and sometimes do take place. In these cases, it is very likely that someone's preference in one or more areas do completely change; that would cause a change in MBTI type.
    so in a way you believe in the "blank slate" theory meaning that a mind is a blank slate that can be filled in by experience? do you believe anything is pre-defined?

    i still stand true to the nurture vs nature arguement. i grew up with two INXJ parents and came out an ENFP. I know another ENFP that grew up with two SJ parents. i highly doubt that MBTI is developed purely on the basis of purely nurture. as far as drugs/trama/emotional/physical blah blah blah go, i dont think the type changes but mearly distorts. to me, the types are set in stone but are able to flex and sway in different directions based on environment and upbringing. a stupid analogy would be a building whose foundation is set but is allowed to flex with any earthquakes that it might encounter through its life.

    the enneagram seems to be very easily changed by upringing/nurture/environment

    EDIT:

    the personality is defined by certain chemicals at a neuro-cognitive level

    EDIT2:

    blank slate argument: if a persons mind is effected by (completely by) environment then the mind must, to some extent be a blank slate. so if you take a baby and put him/her in a white square room with nothing it it and they do not need food/water/watever, then once older, will their mind be void? of course not, there are certain "instincts" or cognitive predispositions that we are born with. this has been proven by a very simple test. you take a new born baby and you show them two pieces of paper. one piece of paper has two equal sized dots above a smaller dot (eyes and a mouth). the other paper has one dot with two dots below it (? lol). the baby will always look towards the first paper. other tests have been done like this but that is just an example. so if they are born with the "instinct" to know what a face is then why cant they be born with a tendency towards a certain type? (people who are blind and deaf have personalties and yet there is almost zero input on their part) it is amazing how much babies learn in the first two years considering they are predisposed to knowing it
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  8. #38
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    so in a way you believe in the "blank slate" theory meaning that a mind is a blank slate that can be filled in by experience? do you believe anything is pre-defined?

    i still stand true to the nurture vs nature arguement. i grew up with two INXJ parents and came out an ENFP. I know another ENFP that grew up with two SJ parents. i highly doubt that MBTI is developed purely on the basis of purely nurture. as far as drugs/trama/emotional/physical blah blah blah go, i dont think the type changes but mearly distorts. to me, the types are set in stone but are able to flex and sway in different directions based on environment and upbringing. a stupid analogy would be a building whose foundation is set but is allowed to flex with any earthquakes that it might encounter through its life.

    the enneagram seems to be very easily changed by upringing/nurture/environment

    EDIT:

    the personality is defined by certain chemicals at a neuro-cognitive level

    EDIT2:

    blank slate argument: if a persons mind is effected by (completely by) environment then the mind must, to some extent be a blank slate. so if you take a baby and put him/her in a white square room with nothing it it and they do not need food/water/watever, then once older, will their mind be void? of course not, there are certain "instincts" or cognitive predispositions that we are born with. this has been proven by a very simple test. you take a new born baby and you show them two pieces of paper. one piece of paper has two equal sized dots above a smaller dot (eyes and a mouth). the other paper has one dot with two dots below it (? lol). the baby will always look towards the first paper. other tests have been done like this but that is just an example. so if they are born with the "instinct" to know what a face is then why cant they be born with a tendency towards a certain type? (people who are blind and deaf have personalties and yet there is almost zero input on their part) it is amazing how much babies learn in the first two years considering they are predisposed to knowing it
    I never once said anything in any regards to the blank slate theory. People are not animals, and therefore are inclined to abstract thought; they are born with this ability. Many physical characteristics and things that are defined by physical characteristics are decided by genetics.
    However, a child learns. A child from a different household and a different environment will learn different things, and it will affect their personality, I believe to the extent of deciding certain factors of their personalities.

    That is not to say they will have to take from the traits of their parents; they will be influenced by both parents, extended family, outside forces, the media, etc. Example; my sister is extroverted, but both my parents are introverted. They raised us to be independent and outgoing; to exhibit those traits. However, I don't see how that can be determined simply by genetics; with what I have followed, introversion would be a recessive trait.

    Also, the director of student life at my school studies the difference between birth order and MBTI typology, as well as average behavior; there is a correlation between certain traits and the order of birth. That would be a learned trait.

    So a human is born with the extraordinary ability to learn; however, they learn what they are taught. If you want, I could do further research on the topic; Freud, I believe, has a few things that demonstrate a preference to developmental psychology.


    And as for chemical balances: what if that balance changes? If, by your theory, personality is dependent solely on that, then if the a permanent chemical imbalance takes place, then the personality would also change permanently.

  9. #39
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    k thats fine. and i never said you believed in the blank slate theory. i was just clearing things up for everyone else

    if a chemical imbalance happens it doesn't change the personality. read The Edge Effect by Eric Braverman for more info. also i dont believe that genetics has all that much effect on personality (though it does to a point). im just saying you are born with your mbti type. your type cannot change but it can flex with the environment. if you have two twins that grow up in exactly the same environment, they both still come out different.

    ill pass on the Freud info. thanks though.

    and true, environment has a massive effect (nature = 60% nurture = 40% (a large percentage)). both my parents are introverted and well what do you know, my Fi is very very developed. but im still an ENFP. so all that to say i agree with most of what you say, but i still think that you are born a type and die that type.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  10. #40
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    k thats fine. and i never said you believed in the blank slate theory. i was just clearing things up for everyone else

    if a chemical imbalance happens it doesn't change the personality. read The Edge Effect by Eric Braverman for more info. also i dont believe that genetics has all that much effect on personality (though it does to a point). im just saying you are born with your mbti type. your type cannot change but it can flex with the environment. if you have two twins that grow up in exactly the same environment, they both still come out different.

    ill pass on the Freud info. thanks though.

    and true, environment has a massive effect (nature = 60% nurture = 40% (a large percentage)). both my parents are introverted and well what do you know, my Fi is very very developed. but im still an ENFP. so all that to say i agree with most of what you say, but i still think that you are born a type and die that type.
    I respect your opinion
    And it is interesting about the twins; technically, that theory would not follow with identical twins (I consider myself to be somewhat of an expert in this area, being a twin myself; I'm fraternal, but I've been very interested in the general workings, so I know quite a few fun facts ). In fact, twins might be one of the best examples of environmental influences; twins do not, in fact, grow up in the exact same environment. They have a very interesting dynamic between them; they are taught to be alike but similar, and they often times fall into separate personality preference so that they can balance attention and roles out between them.
    Or, at least, that's what I've noticed from my own experience, as well as similar stories from others.
    My sister and I were exposed to the exact same chemical dynamic in the womb, but we have different personalities, and they exhibit that balancing dynamic. We are both intuitive and judging, which is the product of the environment that our parents raised us in as well as how they taught us to be; however, she in extroverted to my introverted, so one of us actually took the "dominant" role when dealing with people, and she is thinking to my feeling. This, I theorize, was a result of our developmental patterns in dealing with people and each other as toddlers.

Similar Threads

  1. Each type in 3 words.
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 11-02-2016, 07:32 AM
  2. No Type
    By paulwhy in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-05-2015, 09:01 PM
  3. Help figuring out your type?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 354
    Last Post: 09-25-2012, 12:12 PM
  4. My type flip flops
    By mooseantlers in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  5. [NF] What sort of topics are NF type topics?
    By Alienclock in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 06-23-2007, 09:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO