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  1. #91
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    i have full blown respect for someone who can put up a good debate and i must say you did so beautifully. so props and thank you also, would you mind doing me a very large favor and find out more info on the study about nature vs. nurture? i would highly appreciate that because it is extremely interesting especially coming from someone who did her doctorate on it. thanks

    and as far as the white room argument, i doubt their personality would be developed enough to function and im sure that going into the real world would create a massive sensory overload lol.
    I am planning on finding more out about it: how much does genetics control type; how much does things like birth order control type; how the percentage of types are related to genetics; etc. There's really a lot that goes into it

    And thank you~ It's nice to find someone who will actually debate civilly with me, especially when it comes to putting up with my stubbornness :B

  2. #92
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    And thank you~ It's nice to find someone who will actually debate civilly with me, especially when it comes to putting up with my stubbornness :B
    haha you know this is one of the few civil debates i think ive ever had on mbtic. and dont worry i highly enjoy someone who puts up a fight, i dont care if i lose as long there is a good debate as far as the genetics goes, there is going to be a whole lot of factors, especially as far as pinpointing genes
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

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  3. #93
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    haha you know this is one of the few civil debates i think ive ever had on mbtic. and dont worry i highly enjoy someone who puts up a fight, i dont care if i lose as long there is a good debate as far as the genetics goes, there is going to be a whole lot of factors, especially as far as pinpointing genes
    That's true, in so many ways. I'm beginning to think the whole argument of nature vs. nurture is highly misleading; it's more like %nature + %nurture. I'd really like to see some real research on genetics and MTBI typology, but I'm not sure how an undertaking like that would work....

  4. #94
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloomy-optimist View Post
    That's true, in so many ways. I'm beginning to think the whole argument of nature vs. nurture is highly misleading; it's more like %nature + %nurture. I'd really like to see some real research on genetics and MTBI typology, but I'm not sure how an undertaking like that would work....
    exactly...i completely agree. ya it can be misleading, the way some people put it is 60% nature 40% nurture. how true that is i really dont know. and personally i dont think much research will be done... unfortunately im pretty sure MBTI research is dead
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  5. #95
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    exactly...i completely agree. ya it can be misleading, the way some people put it is 60% nature 40% nurture. how true that is i really dont know. and personally i dont think much research will be done... unfortunately im pretty sure MBTI research is dead
    Which is a real shame! I think we actually really see something in MBTI; we can associate it to ourselves. There are a lot of other personality tests and explanations out there, but none have been as right-on as MBTI with me. And there's so many more ways we could expand the knowledge....

  6. #96
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    There are studies out there that indicate that extroversion and introversion are inherent traits from a very young age.
    As for sensing versus intiutive, based on nothing but my gut feeling, it would seem that would be based significantly on psyhiological differences, which by it's psyhical nature, is genetically based. It's taking in the whole picture vs. analyses part by part. I'm may have got the wrong end of the stick there, but essentially that what I think intuitition and sensing boils down to. From what I have read, these two processes are fundmentally different branching out to learning styles and what not, which of course use slightly different parts of the brain etc.
    If you take the princple of personality and bearing it in mind when looking to other areas of psychology, such as brain development, child development, learning styles, even emotional intellingence, for me at least, it becomes apparent that certain traits are inherent.
    Others I do think are a little more malliable, I tend to think feeling vs Thinking appears determined by upbringing, or at least the balance of how much one thought process is utilised over the other. This is my own personal experience, as I tend to type either INFP or INTP. I think P and J tend to be a bit more enviromentally determined also. I read some where the 1st four functions are displayed and developed in the order through childhood i.e. I/E almost from birth, N/S from six months etc.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  7. #97
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Some people state emphatically type cannot be changed over time, others say it can.

    What say you and why?
    A type is a flip flop.
    The environment changes. All the time. The brain adapts to the environment.
    And it changes accordingly.

  8. #98
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    it bends but it doesn't change.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  9. #99
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Yes. You are perfectly right.
    There are also other studies. The viewpoint is completely changed.
    Good work.

  10. #100
    Senior Member gloomy-optimist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    There are studies out there that indicate that extroversion and introversion are inherent traits from a very young age.
    As for sensing versus intiutive, based on nothing but my gut feeling, it would seem that would be based significantly on psyhiological differences, which by it's psyhical nature, is genetically based. It's taking in the whole picture vs. analyses part by part. I'm may have got the wrong end of the stick there, but essentially that what I think intuitition and sensing boils down to. From what I have read, these two processes are fundmentally different branching out to learning styles and what not, which of course use slightly different parts of the brain etc.
    If you take the princple of personality and bearing it in mind when looking to other areas of psychology, such as brain development, child development, learning styles, even emotional intellingence, for me at least, it becomes apparent that certain traits are inherent.
    Others I do think are a little more malliable, I tend to think feeling vs Thinking appears determined by upbringing, or at least the balance of how much one thought process is utilised over the other. This is my own personal experience, as I tend to type either INFP or INTP. I think P and J tend to be a bit more enviromentally determined also. I read some where the 1st four functions are displayed and developed in the order through childhood i.e. I/E almost from birth, N/S from six months etc.
    Very good analysis! I would be inclined to agree with that, to an extent.
    That would also make sense with something I've seen in the INFJ forum:

    "Phases of development for the INFJ Personality Type:

    From age 0 - 6 years
    At this early age, we use all four of the functions in an indiscriminate fashion. We "try on" the different functions for size, determining which ones work best for us. The little INFJ has not yet emerged as any particular personality type, although his parents may notice trends in behavior which appear to have the characteristics of one or more types.

    From 6 - 12 years
    During this phase, our dominant function begins to develop and assert itself. Our young INFJ begins to appear dreamy and introspective - he begins to prefer to use his iNtuition to take in information, and he chooses to do this alone (Introverted). The dominant function of "Introverted iNtuition" begins to show itself as the prevailing aspect of his personality.

    From 12 - 20 years
    The auxiliary function asserts itself as a powerful support to the dominant function. Since all recent studies point towards the importance of a well-developed team of dominant AND auxiliary functions, this is an important time of "self-identification". Research suggests that people without a strong auxiliary function to complement their dominant function have real problems.
    In our INFJ example, we see the auxiliary Feeling function come to the front during this phase as a support to the dominant iNtuitive function. Since the INFJ's dominant function is an Information Gathering function, the auxilary function must be a Decision Making one. Without a Decision Making process, we would flounder about and never get anything done! As the auxilary Feeling process comes forth, the INFJ begins to develop the ability to make decisions based on his personal value system. This auxiliary decision making process will be Extraverted, since the dominant function is Introverted. Since the decision making function is Extraverted, our subject now emerges as a "Judger", rather than a "Perceiver". Our INFJ Personality Type is now pretty firmly set in place, and we know the dominance ordering of the four functions.

    From 20 - 35 years
    We begin to use our tertiary function more frequently and with better success. Our INFJ begins to use his Introverted Thinking function. He continues to make judgments with his Extreverted Feeling auxiliary function, but he also begins to make judgments based on logic and reason, which he works through in his own mind, rather than discussing it with others.

    From 35 - 50 years
    We pay attention to our fourth, inferior function. We feel a need to develop it and use it more effectively. Our INFJ begins to use his Extraverted Sensing function. He becomes more aware of his surroundings and begins to take in information from others in a more literal, practical sense. He continues to rely on his dominant Introverted iNtuitive function to take in information, but he is more able to use his Extraverted Sensing function than he has been before in his life. Some researchers have attested that the appearance of our inferior functions at this phase of life may be responsible for what we commonly call the "mid-life crisis".

    From 50 onwards
    From this age until our deaths, we have accessibility to all four functions. However, we use them in a more disciplined, differentiated manner than when we were very young. Our basic Personality Type continues to assert itself, but we are able to call upon all four functions when needed."

    I've been really look around about this...Because each function is determined as being "introverted" or "extroverted", it would make sense that intro/extroversion could be based in genetics, along with our "main" function, that being either S or N.
    So an INFJ may be born with a innate preference towards Ni, or introverted iNtuition... which would show the first two letters to be INxx.

    Which basically I'm just summarizing everything you've said, but yeah ^^;

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