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Thread: ENTJ or ENFJ?

  1. #31
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    meanlittlechimp,
    Good points. Though I'm not sure about ESTPs and ENFJs getting on that well. Mine certainly don't (that's the missus and my sister) but I can certainly see why they might.

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    This would also coincide with Brendans idea that ENFJs are as much as, if not more, of the 'social chameleon' then the INTP. I am inclined to agree.
    I'm not sure about this... The whole social chameleon thing I think is a bit of a con in regard to the INTP. I've seen ENFJs do their chameleon thing and it's noticeable that they do not really change much. A better description would be that they amplify different traits around different people. They don't change anything except the relative strengths of the traits which they posses naturally.

    I think the chameleon nature of INTPs comes more from a study of people like a lab experiment. They're not really changing (ala chameleon) but more fitting into the pattern which they have noticed. I guess that's the same thing but still I'd be wary around such terms as "social chameleon". It makes INTPs sound sociable or even likable and we all know that ain't true
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #32
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay how do you tell the difference between these two?

    I'm thinking that an ENFJ who's had problems with people in the past, especially a bloke, would tend more towards T-ish kind of thinking. Less empathy and more guarded like the ENTJ. However would an ENTJ who'd been hurt by people tend to be more empathic as the wound would make them open up with true friends? How could you tell them apart? How do they react to such stresses as bullies and betrayals? Which one is more likely to bite your head off one minute and then be perfectly fine the next?

    Oh and the other thing running through my head is that a male ENFJ would perhaps appear more ENTJ as males are encouraged to be T and such.

    Thoughts people?
    What is the Keirsey division? For the N the F/T we know. Your thing. This is not what I mean.

    It is the blatant, the obvious, the blaring, the thing that caughts the eye.
    And it is all right.
    And in this realm there exists a crossing over pattern? A bold statement.

    Look at it in this way. I round about a little. A little analogy, if you please.
    Keirsey has the other favourite, the P/J dichotomy for the S.

    Let us turn the table around.
    Do they cross over? Give me the analogy and I believe you.

  3. #33
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    What is the Keirsey division? For the N the F/T we know. Your thing. This is not what I mean.

    It is the blatant, the obvious, the blaring, the thing that caughts the eye.
    And it is all right.
    And in this realm there exists a crossing over pattern? A bold statement.

    Look at it in this way. I round about a little. A little analogy, if you please.
    Keirsey has the other favourite, the P/J dichotomy for the S.

    Let us turn the table around.
    Do they cross over? Give me the analogy and I believe you.
    I'm intuiting you meaning here Wildcat so forgive me if I'm off base.

    SJ & SP.
    Right well ISFJ is the first of these to cross over daily. Though they are by nature a creature of social norms and values they posses the ENTP shadow which means their sense of humour is mostly directed at what crosses social norms. This kind of thing is very P.

    The times when they are SP is when they are excited about something. I would then describe the ISFJ as more ESFP in attitude. The cynicism which seems common to ISFJs disappears and is replaced by a sort of positive nihilism. They still expect the bogey man to ruin everything but this time such thinking is greeted with "well sod it I'm going to do it anyway".

    Now is that close to what you wanted to procure or have I gone off on a tangent?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #34
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I'm intuiting you meaning here Wildcat so forgive me if I'm off base.

    SJ & SP.
    Right well ISFJ is the first of these to cross over daily. Though they are by nature a creature of social norms and values they posses the ENTP shadow which means their sense of humour is mostly directed at what crosses social norms. This kind of thing is very P.

    The times when they are SP is when they are excited about something. I would then describe the ISFJ as more ESFP in attitude. The cynicism which seems common to ISFJs disappears and is replaced by a sort of positive nihilism. They still expect the bogey man to ruin everything but this time such thinking is greeted with "well sod it I'm going to do it anyway".

    Now is that close to what you wanted to procure or have I gone off on a tangent?
    Exactly. You have said it. They posses the shadow thing which is the opposite of a kind. Is the ENTP the shadow of ...

    Now I get it!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Which one is more likely to bite your head off one minute and then be perfectly fine the next?


    Thoughts people?

    ENTJ, easily.

    NT can block out their feelings. Rationalize what happened and think about the problem from a detached view.

    When an NF bites your head off, it'll probably take them a while to cool down.

  6. #36
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I reckon it's all down to how they act if they witness people yelling at each other. The ENFJ will try to calm people down and get them to discuss their feelings nicely, expecting to be able to solve it and have everyone happy by the end of the 'session'. The ENTJ will probably stand back and watch for a bit, before telling everyone to just STFU, or walking out and leaving them to it.

    And where the ENFJ expects that once they've mediated a 'peace' between two people, that their animosity is solved and over, the ENTJ would tend to expect that the peace was superficial and that another argument was sure to arise before long. ENFJ would put those people together to encourage them to get along (actually thinking this will work), whilst ENTJ would keep them separated if possible.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Razor View Post

    Also, NTJs are usually very serious people, they dont have that "silly switch" that many NFs have.
    Disagree here.

    Perhaps because you are sp-first, as self-pres of all types remain rather serious. However as a sx-first, I can be extremely silly. Especially in a sarcasticly mocking way.

  8. #38
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuraba View Post
    ENTJ, easily.

    NT can block out their feelings. Rationalize what happened and think about the problem from a detached view.

    When an NF bites your head off, it'll probably take them a while to cool down.
    Well he was weighed and measured as an ENFJ.
    Not sure about this cool off period you know. My sister is an ENFJ and my father is an ENTJ. He'll not bite your head off unless you cross his principles (he's very T like that) but she will remove your spine in a heartbeat if you cross hers! Mind you he's positive feedback and she's negative so perhaps that's the deciding factor?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #39
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuraba View Post
    Disagree here.
    Absofragginglutely!!
    INTJs can go more silly than most, the whole ESFP shadow, and ENTJs can be extremely silly, though mostly in a dry sense compared to an F.

    Give my father a few drinks and that'll be an excellent example
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    the ENTJ would tend to expect that the peace was superficial and that another argument was sure to arise before long. ENFJ would put those people together to encourage them to get along (actually thinking this will work), whilst ENTJ would keep them separated if possible.
    I think perhaps you are confused with how an INTJ will act with an ENTJ. ENTJs make great mediators, in my opinion. They will solve the dispute in a practical, fair way- with both sides agreeing to the result, while an ENFJ will make sure everyone is emotionally happy.

    ENFJs- likes talking about feelings
    ENTJs- do only when everything else is resolved
    INTJs- goes around telling everyone to STFU, heh

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